6 Responses to “Indonesia - Bugis peoples”

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   The Bugis Peoples | prayforkuwait.com BLOG Says:
   September 4th, 2008 at 10:19

   [Pingback] [Full Text on the Bugis Peoples of Indonesia] [...]

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   Good News, Freedom, Recovery & Favor ! Says:
   September 5th, 2008 at 6:39

   [Pingback] vast majority of the Bugis in Indonesia (over 3.5 million) live on the south-western peninsula of Sulawesi Island. For the Bugis people, [...]

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   Dying of Thirst » Post Topic » Pray for the Bugis, Says:
   September 5th, 2008 at 5:20

   [Pingback] The Bugis of Indonesia-  have you ever heard of the Boogeyman?  I wonder if this is where that name comes from. [...]

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   Fawzia Says:
   September 29th, 2008 at 5:28

   John,

   I’m from a Muslim family but atheist now. My family comes from a country in Africa Senegal, which is 95% Muslim, but has full freedom of and from religion. The .S. Department of State has not recorded a single instance of forced marriage, honor killing or killing apostates in Senegal, unlike in Rwanda where Christians slaughtered each other for God some time back. Infact, Senegal’s first President Leopold Sanghor was a Catholic born of a Catholic father and Muslim mother.

   And I sincerely urge you to go back and read the Bible again. The Book of John among others clearly says that better believe in Jesus oorr BURN!
   I would also urge you to read up a little more for example the Deuteronomy:

   In Deuteronomy 13:1 God explicitly says,” Whatever I’m noew commanding you, you must keep and observe, adding nothing to it, taking nothing away.” so right at the beginning, a symbolic reading is prohibited by God Himself. Then in Deuteronomy 13:7-11 God says that if your siblings, best friend or wife tells you to worship other gods, you must kill them straight away by your own hands, and show no mercy.

   This website urges Muslims to convert to Christianity. Just in case your brothers, sisters, kids or wife chance upon a website which urges the worship of Allah or Buddha and wants to teach you about his\ her belief, you now know what exactly your loving God orders you to do. YES! You must kill them John, and no mercy. And God himself has forbidden a symbolic interpretation, remember, asking you to add or subtract nothing? So when you’ve killed your child or sister who was teaching you to worship Buddha, remember to thank your new friend Fawzia.

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   john Says:
   September 30th, 2008 at 3:22

   Fawzia,
   Yes, I know Senegal. I have several friends from there, as well as people who have spent considerable time there. I myself passed through there on my way to Cote d’Ivoire in 1998. I would like to address a couple of points you raised in your letter. I speak as one who at one point held similar views regarding Christianity, so I am not condemning you, just trying to help you understand how I came to change my views. I can understand your rejection of Christianity if that is your understanding of it. If that is what Christianity is, I myself would also reject it! But with all due respect, I humbly submit that you have got it all wrong!

   First of all, the situation in Rwanda had nothing to do with Christianity, and it was , in fact, roundly condemned by Christians both within and without Rwanda. The fight was a tribal one, between Hutus and Tutsis. One of the Christian stories that came out of that time was the story of a Catholic priest, a Hutu, who was confronted by the Hutu aggressors and asked to identify himself as a Hutu or a Tutsi. His response: “I am a Christian!” Because he refused to separate himself from his Tutsi brothers, he suffered the same fate with them and died rather than deny his Lord. Many Christian organisations helped out during and after the atrocities, saving as many as they could. When the fighting ended, the Christians were instrumental in bringing the country back together. Although Christian history has many negative stories, it also has many positive ones. Sadly, through long periods of our history, we did do exactly what you are advocating, but the majority of Christians recognise that those actions are not Christian and are, in fact, opposed to Christianity.

   As for the Gospel of John, I have read it MANY times, and I have yet to find any place where Christ tells us to kill or curse those who disagree with us - in fact, He COMMANDS the exact opposite. “I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those that hate you.” And on what basis? “That you may be like your Father in heaven who blesses all, both the evil and the good, and sends His rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” The whole basis of Christian missions is the Good News (the Evangel) that God loves each and every one and longs to welcome all of His children home. One of Jesus’ best known stories in Luke 15 tells of God’s love for the one who rejects Him and his constant waiting for the return of His prodigal children. I agree that Deuteronomy requires on the surface that we reject and even kill those who try to turn us away from God, but NOWHERE in the New Testament (or New Covenant) is that found. There is a realisation that some will eventually be rejected by God, much as it hurts Him, but WE are called to proclaim the message of reconciliation to as many as we can, even if it costs us our lives. Judgement is not our prerogative, but God’s! Even those who hurt us are to be loved for His sake. God will pursue as long as He can with the object of finding and wrapping His arms around His rebellious children. As a father myself, I have a small inkling of the Father’s pain when His children reject Him and His burning passion (even to submitting to death in the person of the Divine Son) to bring them back to Himself. But if we persist in rebellion, He will give us our desire and turn His back on us - that is what we call hell!

   Let me make a suggestion! Read the Gospels, the various different perspectives on the life of the Man who walked the paths and byways of Galilee and Jerusalem some 2000 years ago. Read not with an agenda of finding fault but with a view of getting to know the One who is being presented. I realise that many of us can point to Christians who have been less than perfect in their walk and who may even reject us on the basis of misunderstandings and peripheral issues - I myself have been guilty of that more than once. But try to listen to Him and not let those other voices obscure His voice or drown it out. I will pray that God may introduce you to people who really know and love Him and who can love you with His love. I sense from your response to my letter that you are a good person and I would be happy to be your friend. My deepest wish as your friend would be to introduce you to Jesus the Christ (Isa al Masih) so you can get to know Him, not as the Qu’ran portrays Him but as His close friends who lived and walked and talked with Him portray Him. May peace be upon you.
   –Your friend, john

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   Fawzia Says:
   September 30th, 2008 at 5:22

   John,

   What makes you think that I haven’t read the Bible? And I didn’t for a moment suggest that the Book of John suggests killing unbelievers. I wrote that the Book of John says that whoever believes in the Son of God-Jesus is saved and whoever disbelieves in Him is condemned, however noble a life they might have led. So my comment about that Minangkabau girl, Lina holds true. According to Christian belief, even if she is saved from eternal Hellfire by accepting Christ as her personal Saviour, her family and friends who remain Muslim and accept Christ only as a Prophet are doomed to Hell. This is acccording to Christian belief, which you guys hope to convert Lina to, not through any proved reality. So yes if Lina does accept Christianity and the belief that disbelief in Christ leads to eternal Hellfire, I wrote that she should be even more worried for her loved ones.

   That bit about “killing” unbelievers comes from the Deuteronomy. I’ve even quoted the parts of the Deuteronomy where its written, so you can go ahead and look up if you don’t believe me. And the Deuteronomy is a part and parcel of the Bible, the eternal word of God.And Deuteronomy DOES order to kill even your loved ones your wife, son, daughter or brother if they reject your God, showing them no mercy and just before saying this God even forbids a symbolic interpretation of these verses. If Christians have largely given up their violent ways these days, through a symbolic reading of these verses, or by largely ignoring them its certainly a credit to them. But as killing of even your most beloved people is allowed through these verses, where’s the harm in killing non related unbelievers?

   As for whether Rwanda is due to Christianity or not, thats’ using the logical fallacy of “No true Scotsman”. There are good Christians and there are bad Christians, as there are good and bad Muslims. Rwanda was a case of intolerance in a Christian nation, Somalia is a violent and intolerant Muslim nation. There’s an infinite variety of Muslims too, like in the first time I posted, the article was on the Muslim Minangkabau. The Minangkabau are the world’s largest matriarchy- at 7-8 million strong. Land and property pass from mother to daughter. They’re just as Muslim as the misogynistic Saudi Arabians, as they consider themselves Muslim.

   There’s loads, simply loads of people who’ve read the Bible and consider themselves unbelievers. As you yourself said, Christians have sometimes been violent through the centuries, and this violence has played a large part in spreading Christianity in hitherto pagan lands. When European Christians colonized much of the world, there were many benefits given to the pagans who converted to Christianity. Yet, two third of the world remains pagan, so God might have created 66.5% of the Earth’s population and endowed many of these people with much goodness, intelligence and righteousness, only to burn them in Hell for not accepting Christ, if Christianity is true. Nor is it due to restrictions in pagan lands. In Senegal and Mali, its perfectly safe to preach the Gospel, yet most people follow their ancestral faiths. It would be presumptious to assume that all these people are “evil”. I have met many very erudite and loving people in Senegal, who get a lot of comfort from their faith. Why should I believe in any God be it Christian or Muslim, who condemns these people to Hell, be it Allah or God?

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