Muslims almost always object to using the title “Son of God” concerning Jesus. The main reason is that many Muslims believe the phrase “Son of God” implies that God the Father had sexual relations with Mary and that Jesus (the Son) was born of this union. Some understand the Christian Trinity as consisting of the Father, Mary and Jesus. Christians actually do not believe this and like Muslims we find the idea repulsive and blasphemous. Unfortunately this is often the Muslim understanding of the phrase “Son of God.”
The Deity of Christ
The Qur’an does say that Jesus was born of a virgin. Various Muslim traditions ascribe miracles to Jesus such as healing the sick and raising the dead. However, the Qur’an states that He was no more than a human being, a prophet like all other prophets. Islam thinks that Chrisians are trying to elevate Jesus to be God. Yet, the reality is that Jesus is not a man whom we are trying to elevate to be God; rather He is God who humbled Himself to become man.
Islam refuses to ascribe deity to Christ and rejects the doctrine that Jesus is the Son of God.
In Christianity, the title, “Son of God” indicates the majesty, honour and glory of Jesus (2 Peter 1:16-18). The title is tied not only to His divinity but also to His kingship. Nathan’s prophecy in 2 Samuel 7:12-14, one of the early prophecies of the Messianic King, speaks of David’s descendant as God’s Son. “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me.” It is certain that the early believers understood Jesus’ role as “Son of God” as being related to kingship: “Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel” (John 1:49, 11:27, 20:31 and Romans 1:1-5). The messianic king’s appointment was described as begetting a son (Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5). You can find a longer article on this subject on our site here “Explaining-Son-Of-God”.
Prayer Starters:
- May God bring real breakthroughs in this area of Muslim misunderstanding. This subject is one of the most significant hindrances for Muslims coming to Christ. Believers need wisdom in addressing this issue.
- Pray for Muslims to have a biblical understanding of the phrase “Son of God.” Meditate on and proclaim in prayer the texts cited above.
Special Section: Prayer for the Peoples of Sudan — The Guhayna people
The 1.3 million Guhayna are a largely nomadic people living in Central Sudan. Not much is known about this people group other than that they are Sudanese Arabs who trace their heritage to the Bedouin who wandered the deserts of Saudi Arabia centuries ago.
The Guhayna embrace rigid codes of honour, loyalty and hospitality, the strong role of men in society, the value of children, subservience of women and the five pillars of Islam. To confess Jesus as Lord is not well accepted and has serious consequences. Pray that fear of persecution from Islamic relatives will not hinder the Guhayna as they consider the Gospel. No one is actively reaching this people group.
Pray for missionaries and funds so the Guhayna can hear about Jesus.
Video: Hope Lights
Hope Lights from Salomon on Vimeo.
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The Muslim believes in ONE God.. who is without a partner. and who is AlMIGHTY. the only thing that will stop a Muslim going to paradise is if he or indeed any human being denies the unique oneness. For a Muslim to think of Jesus as “Son of God” or “God” is totally against the basic tenant of Islamic belief.
it is not so much how Jesus became the Son of God that pervades people’s thinking.. but the fact that Christians associate another with Almighty God.
The Qur’an describes God this way.. perhaps this will help explain why it’s so much of an issue to a Muslim to hear of another associated with God
He is Allah, than whom there is no other God; the Knower of the unseen and visible. He is the Beneficent, the Merciful. He is Allah, than whom there is no other God, the Sovereign Lord, the Holy One, the Peace, the Keeper of faith, the Guardian, the Majestic, the Compeller, the Superb. Glorified be Allah from all that they ascribe as partners (to him). He is Allah the Creator, the Evolver, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.( 59:22-24 )
and every Muslim recites this probably at least once a day
n the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.
(112)
hi carol PRAISE THE LIVING GOD
Here is a warning to Christians about false these prophets: “If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign [In Mohammed's case the sign is the Koran] or a wonder,
Deuteronomy 13:1-5
Deuteronomy 13
Worshiping Other Gods
1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
I think that our prayers must be focused on asking Jesus to reveal Himself as Son of God to Muslims. Unfortunately Christians have not given a real vision of what it means being a believer in the Son of God. On admitting our failures we release the Nations so that the Spirit of God can move mightily. This releases the revelation of the Son of God not only to Muslims, but to all who are still written in the Book of Life in Godhead’s Heart. Admitting our sins, and failures, releases the Revelation of who God’s Son is… after the Blood, always the Spirit comes, amen.
I have read Rick Browns article and the comments on how Muslims feel about the Son of God
And I appreciate that people who have been fed with a lie and the connotation of the unpardonable sin from childhood on will have a problem with Jesus being the Son of God. I also appreciate the wisdom of witnessing in terms of another culture.
But I do have a problem that God’s own testimony is not mentioned in Ricks article (Matthew3:17 and 17:5). To me both those revelations show how God the Father feels about Jesus and subsequently feels about those who truly are in Christ. This is how He wanted man to be from the beginning and how we can be again in Christ alone. This is the basic purpose of Jesus atoning and redeeming work . I wonder, with due respect for the wisdom and insights shared, if avoiding the truth that God desires us as His children and that the only way is through Jesus, will not have the adverse effect of watering down our Christian testimony. People -muslim or not – have a choice to accept or decline the offer of salvation. But our message must be clear, compassionate, fearless
This horrible lie that keeps 1.5 billion people in bondage can only be broken by the power of the Spirit and the word of our testimony. The apostles didn’t mince words but were obedient trusting the Holy Spirit to convince and convict and so should we
The issue is that contrary to popular belief.. Muslims don’t rely on good works for their salvation. Muslims depend totally on the mercy of God for the forgiveness of their sins. and they do good works to show their love and obedience to Him in a way that leaves many Christians with no credibility at all.
Yes, a Muslim does believe in a Judgement Day and a balance of the scales .. good deeds against bad deeds.. but this is more in line with the picture in Corinthians which speaks of our works being tested by fire. On the Day of Judgement a Muslim’s like everyone else’s work will be tested.. but they are reliant on the mercy of God for the forgiveness of their sins.. not their good deeds.
The muslim has a very defined understanding of how God doesn’t need a sacrifice to provide for the forgiveness of their sins. Their understanding of Him as the Most Merciful and Most Compassionate God who forgives all their sins.
One of the hadiths.. says this to a Muslim ““…whomever you meet behind this wall, testifying that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allaah, his heart certain of it, give him the glad tidings of Al-Jannah (paradise).”
A muslim who is practising their religion is very much focused on pleasing God in every aspect of their lives. There is not one part of their life which is not an act of worship.
Christians who only preach Jesus as Son of God will have a very hard time showing Muslims that their faith is better.. when a Muslim sees a Christian only going to Church on a Sunday and maybe attending a bible study through the week.
For a Muslim living in the west, even buying new clothes is an act of worship to God.. and they are completely reliant on His mercy for the forgiveness of their sins.
All the characteristics from 59:22-24 which Carol used to describe Allah, certainly describe Jesus. I would not call Jesus “another” besides the Almighty, but rather one and the same true God.
As to the mercy of God, that is shown in that he offered himself (Jesus) in sacrifice to pay the price (death) of our sin. Since the beginning of time sacrifice has been necessary to attone for sin. Since Adam, continued through Moses and all of the old testament. God is just, and you can’t deny that. For God to neglect to fulfill justice by not punishing sin, He would be denying himself.
As to forgiveness of sin, that is personal, between a saved human being and God; and takes place beyond the law.
Problem is Charles, Muslims see Jesus as a Messenger.. they have a very defined understanding of him, as they do of God Almighty.
Just going to a Muslim and telling them that Jesus is one and the same as God, won’t work because the majority of Muslims will immediately see the contrast between God and Jesus.
:A Muslim knows Jesus in this way
1 The Virgin Birth
She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is (Qur’an 3:47)
2. A Prophet and all Muslims are compelled to follow and love him .. confirming the Torah not denying it. and the Prophethood was accompanied by miracles
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (Qur’an 3: 49-51).
Then We sent Our messengers following in their footsteps and sent ‘Jesus son of Mary after them, giving himthe Gospel… (Qur’an, 57:27)
3. His Teaching
When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: ‘Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him — this is a Straight Way.’ But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!” (43:63-65)
4. A spirit from God
“O People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah
aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah,
and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe
in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is
one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all
things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”
5. Word from God
n Sura 4:171, Jesus is called, “His Word.”
6. Coming again as judge
“By him in whose hands my soul rests, surely Jesus, Son, of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind judiciously, by the law of the Quran, as an honest ruler.”
and this Muslims believe explain this verse
And there is none of the people of the book, but must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an apostle of Allah and a human being), before his death, and on the Day of Judgment, he will be a witness against them.” Quran 4/159
Muhammad said in one of his sayings ”
So no Muslim will deny that Jesus told people to follow him and he would guide them to God.. no muslim will accept the concept of Trinity when they believe as Christians do in a virgin birth, they love Jesus as a prophet, believe that the same message he bought to the people of the book (jews and christians) was the same message of worshipping God as one that Muhammad bought.
They believe him sent by God, taken back to God and coming again as Judge.. and that every one will see him when he returns.
And he (Jesus) shall undoubtedly be a sign for the coming of the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, have no doubt about the Hour but follow Me. This is a straight way (Surah 43:61)
Carol,
For someone to become a Muslim, they must deny Christ. Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. People who deny the son deny the Father who sent him. We don’t need to help Christians understand the Muslim view of God and Jesus, we need to help Muslims understand the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Jesus was God “Allah” in the flesh, not just a prophet or messenger of God.
You have a very keen sensitivity to the Muslim point of view, which is good. But how good are you at getting Muslims to cross from death to life? Muslims are sincere in what they believe, but they are wrong. How well are you at bringing them from darkness to light?
Well now is the time to tell you, that I have actually become a Muslim.. I was a Christian missionary and it was then I began to really understand Islam.
I also led 30 day prayers in churches during Ramadhan so the 30 day concept is not something I am not aware of.
I think it’s very important that Chritians who talk to Muslims should completely understand what Islam teaches before they start to talk about Islam.
You will only gain this understanding by doing as Phil Parshall and others have suggested.. and by building bridges to Islam.. this means really knowing Islam and knowing the true heart of a Muslim
Out of respect for the forum I will cease posting now.. but I encourage every Christian praying through Ramadhan to read again my posts about the true Muslim comprehension of Tawheed.. ot the One ness of God and to remember than NO Muslim denies Jesus..but in stead believes that Jesus like all the Prophets, shows mankind how to worship God.. and by following his teachings.. we do indeed find God and learn of His Character.
Carol,
Mohammad misunderstood Trinity, the Trinity that the quran talks about is God, Mary and Jesus, whereas christians perspective of trinity as revealed by Jesus is thus not understood.
About the teachings of jesus, there is hardly any teachings of jesus in the quran and jesus’s teaching centered on LOVE. (YES JESUS’S TEACHINGS & WHO JESUS IS HAVE COME WITH A TWIST 700YRS LATER)
Pray for those who persecute you.
Do good to those who hate you.
Turn your other cheek.
Walk an extra mile.
etc. etc.
I have spoken to muslims who detest these basic teachings of jesus.
Sorry carol, all prophet talking about worshiping the one true God. Were the jews not worshiping the one true god ?? or are they not worshiping today the one true god???
The Jews therefore said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59). WHY BECAUSE HE WAS HUMAN?
“I and the Father are one.” The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (John 10:30-33). WHY BECAUSE HE WAS HUMAN INDEED??
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” (John 14:6-9).
Carol,
Judgement lies in the hands of God, Only God is the TRUE judge of the living and the dead.
YOU AND ME CANNOT BE THE PERFECT JUDGE BCOZ ONLY GOD IS PERFECT.
SO AGAIN THE QURAN FAILS THE TEST OF BEING THE TRUE WORD OF GOD.
IS IT NOT THAT GOD FORGIVES OUR SINS??? THEN WHO IS OUR JUDGE??
DOES YOUR ALLAH REQUIRE A HUMAN BEING TO JUDGE MANKIND??
COMMON SENSE WILL TELL US THAT ONLY GOD IS THE TRUE JUDGE.
YES GOD BECAME MAN TO SHOW US THE WAY THE TRUTH & THE LIFE AND THAT IS WHY HE WAS PROPHESIZED BY THE PROPHETS OF OLD AS ‘EMANNUEL’ – GOD WILL BE WITH US, AND THE NAME JESUS MEANS GOD SAVES.
CAN HUMANS PERCEIVE GOD? YES WITH HUMAN EYES AND MIND THAT LIMITS OUR UNDERSTANDING OF GOD, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD TO KNOW AND COMPREHEND GOD BECAUSE GODS WAYS ARE NOT OUR WAYS AND OUR WAYS ARE NOT GODS WAYS.
YES YOU HAVE RIGHTLY SPOKEN THE TRUTH ‘ISLAM IS FLESH’ – AND ALL THAT MATTERS IN ISLAM IS TO KEEP FLESH CLEAN AND NOT YOUR SOUL. BUT GOD IS SPIRIT N SO HE NEEDS OUR SOULS TO BE CLEAN.
HOW? BY WASHING OUR FLESH??
MATHEW16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for FLESH & BLOOD hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
AGAIN YOU LOOSE YOUR CASE, ANY ONE WHO ACCEPTS JESUS, JESUS LEADS THEM TO HIS FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
CAROL, THIS SAME JESUS WHO IS ONLY HUMAN FOR YOU TODAY, SAID IF U KNOW ME YOU KNOW MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
Carol you said:
The muslim has a very defined understanding of how God doesn’t need a sacrifice to provide for the forgiveness of their sins.
We have in our midst wolfs in sheeps clothing dear and YOU ARE ANTI CHRIST INDEED.
ISLAM is the one religion that even today continues SCRIFICE OF ANIMAL and EVERY MUSLIM (INCLUDING YOU) BOWS 5TIMES A DAY TO THE BLACK STONE (which is presumed, i repeat WHICH IS PRESUMED that abraham sacrified his son. Carol you can check it as the devil indeed has taken you for good rides which seems to appeases you – This kaaba was a house of idols and ALLAH the moon god Hubal was one of the Gods worshiped by pre-islamic nomads of saudi.
Yes Carol you are bowing towards it, you are praying to it, you are worshiping it and you are inviting innocent souls to damnation. According to muslims, they were previously told to face and pray towards Jerusalem , but later mohammad told (you will find abrogation after abrogations of supposed to be the words of god according to whims and fancies) to bow towards this kaaba in which housed idols. History confirms and the name of mohammad’s father reaffirms – abd allah (servant of allah) as the moon god. You can check it out. Please note that you cannot destroy facts and truth in the making of a religion.
Mathew:
9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. Carol, this is what you are doing.
Jesus is the new adam who OBEYED the WILL OF GOD and thus JESUS MAKES EVERYTHING CLEAN&NEW, just as IT WAS ”’ IN THE BEGINING”” WHEN GOD CREATED THIS WORLD.
THAT IS WHY JESUS GIVES US LIFE BECAUSE FROM HIM COMES EVERYTHING THAT GOD WILLTH, NO ONE CAN IT IT AWAY FROM HIM, NOT U EITHER.
I was asked when I became a Muslim how I could “leave Jesus behind”
I didn’t.. infact now I know him in a way I never did before.. but more importantly I know God in a way I longed to know Him as a Christian.
Thanks for your honesty. I was about to ask you myself if you were a Muslim–now I don’t have to. From your posts, I would say you do not really understand what it means to be a Christian or who Jesus is, either before becoming a Muslim or now. I would gather that you were probably a Jehovah’s Witness, and not a true Christian. Christians know that Jesus came down from heaven, was born of the virgin Mary, is the word of God who became flesh at the incarnation, became the second Adam, is the bread of life, the prince of peace, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, the light of the world, the alpha and omega, the first and the last, was crucified, risen, ascended to heaven, is seated at the right hand of God, is the savior of all who call upon him, and is coming back to judge the living and the dead. He is a whole lot more than that, but he is not, as Muslims are told, just a prophet and a messenger of God. Jesus came first to the Jews, but most rejected him. But as many as received him, he gave the right to become the children of God. As the second Adam, Jesus was the first man to be born with eternal life, and all who receive him also have eternal life. Jesus loves you even thought you have rejected him. The good news is, as long as you are still alive, Jesus is offering you the gift of eternal life, but this life is only found in him. May everyone reading this pray for Carol that she will find the forgiveness of sins and eternal life in Christ Jesus.
Dear Joe,
You really have assumed way too much. Though I do understand why.
I was an evangelical Christian who was a member of two evangelical missions.. both international and well known. I accepted Jesus as my Saviour at age 12 and through my life as a Christian, went to bible college, led bible studies, discipleship classes and called others to Christ.. just like you are doing.
Those who know me will attest my love for God , infact.. when I became a Muslim one said to me that my main supporting church said “if Carol can become a Muslim so can anyone”. My faith was something that completely consumed my life and the way I lived it. God’s pleasure my motivation.
There is so much assumption in your posts Joe. When I became a Christian I submitted my life to God and said to Him.. this is not my life it’s your life, do with it as you will.” .. I encouraged people to missionary service .. my motivation.. I trruly believed that people came to salvation only through the Name of Jesus and by believing in HIm as you have described.
The thing I have found out though Joe, when my mission work gave me the opporunity to learn about God from the Muslim Perspective and not from a Christian perspective on Islam.. was that God in Islam is Almighty. He is able to forgive sin.. just as He promised in the Old Testament without the need for blood sacrifice. If He couldnnot He would not be God at all.
He said in 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, who are called by my Name, humble themselves and pray, and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, then shall I hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land.
This is true Islam in a nut shell.
Seeking God in every area of life and worshipping and loving Him in all we do and say. .Repenting of our sin and knowing Him as the Most Merciful and Compassionate.
I am not alone.. there are many former Christians becoming Muslims.
HI PEOPLE
Here is a warning to Christians about false these prophets: “If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign [In Mohammed's case the sign is the Koran] or a wonder,
Deuteronomy 13:1-5
Deuteronomy 13
Worshiping Other Gods
1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
According to Sharia Law they need witnessess to prove guilty.
According to muslims ALLAH wrote the book.
some say it was sent down from heaven.
some say it was dictated to mohammad.
So in the 20odd years of inspiration THERE IS NOT A SINGLE WITNESS PROVIDED TO PROVE THAT GOD EVER SPOKE TO MOAHMMAD.
Carol, I don’t know what Jesus you learned about or from where, but it certainly wasn’t the Jesus of the Bible. You cannot admit that Jesus existed and lived according to the account of the gospels (not to mention the epistles) without considering him either God in the flesh or the worst of all blasphemers. He himself claimed divinity (jn14) and the right to forgive sins (mk2) and command angels. Even Satan recognized the divinity of Jesus in the desert (mt3). You admit he was born of a virgin; so I ask you this: What mere man was ever born without a father? God did not create a new adam. He has existed since before time, he was with God and he is God (jn1).
Charles, you yourself believe that the Holy Spirit came upon mary and she found herself with child.. this is the way Muslims believe that Jesus was created.. .. no human intervention was necessary.
John 1:14 was not the words of Jesus.. it was as believed by Christians, the words of John who penned John’s gospel. John called Jesus the Word come in the Flesh.. to dwell amongst us.
There are many verses which could be interpreted as verses suggesting He is God if read in one way.. yet when read in light of the many other things He said.. it’s just as easy to say He never claimed divinity.
He instead called to the Worship of God.. speaking of “my God and your God” .. He declared that eternal life was not found through Him, but through obedience to the commandments.. he proved to the rich young ruler that he was breaking the second commandment.. since love of money was his god.. and he had been told “you shall have no other gods before me.”
He declared the most important commandment was a calling to worship of the ONE God.. when He said “Hear Oh Israel, the Lord, the Lord our God, is One Lord”.
Does it not ever surprise you that Jesus never redefined Oneness in a way that the Jews He was talking to would comprehend? He went to a people for whom God’s Oneness was a basic tenant of faith.. yet He called people to worship God in the way they had done so for thousands of years since Adam and later Abraham.
He called people to worship God .. in the way He is worshipped on earth as in heaven. He spoke more of the coming of the kingdom of God than anything else.. If we heard Jesus in the way he intended.. we would find God.. as He promised.
Carol, you say “Jesus never redefined oneness” but if you would read the gospel of John you will see it. Specifically John chapter 14 he says “I and the father are one”. John 14:6 Jesus claims to be “The way the truth and the life”. John 3:36 refutes your statement that Jesus never claimed to be the way to eternal life “He who believes in the Son has eternal life” who is this Son Jesus is talking about?
The greatest commandment was not to worship God as you say, but Jesus says specifically in Matthew 22:37 that the greatest commandment is “love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and strength” and the second is like it; “love your neighbor as yourself”. Jesus also spoke of a time when worship would indeed change, when the people of God would worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
I find it difficult to discuss this with you, however, as you do not believe the Gospels to be divinely inspired (for example discounting John chapter 1 as the words of man and therefore unreliable…so which parts are true and which arent? and who decided that?) and as for me, I do not consider the Quran to be divinely inspired.
Charles, yes of course Jesus said that in John 14:6..but what did he also say in John 17.. when he asked that the disciples would be one with the father and son.. just as they were one.. .. Now I know you will tell me that the Oneness in John 14:6 is different to the oneness in Johm 17, but the question is .. is it?
If John 17 discusses one ness in purpose then why not also John 14? It’s not about truth or not about reliable commentary.
Jesus also proclaimed in John 17 that the work the Father had given him to do was completed.. yet we then add the crucifixion and resurrection to his story.. so what work had Jesus completed in the garden? It couldn’t have been oneness of his disciples, since the narrative says they ran away at his trial and Peter denied him three times.
As to the Greatest Commandment.. you have quoted from matthew’s version, which leaves out the shema.. but Marks’s version in chapter 12 includes it .. and it says
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’There is no commandment greater than these.”
This is also a reminder of the words of Moses as recorded in Deuteronomy 6 and Leviticus 19.
Christians commonly remember the second part of Jesus’ words, but do as you have done and exclude the call to worship God as ONE. .. this would have been the perfect time to redifine oneness really means triune .. or three in one.. if this was true.
and the second part of that verse is equally important
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
one final word on this subject penned by yet another former Christian .. this is on repentance and forgiveness and sacrifice in Islam
Christian (and Jewish) theology separates forgiveness by repentance and forgiveness sacrifice – Islam does not. In fact, in Islam, forgiveness is only through repentence and turning to Allah, and sacrifice has nothing to do with it. Allah says, “their blood does not reach me, but the piety (of the sacrificer) is what reaches me.” In Islam, sacrifice is a means of thanks and whole hearted dedication, and is only on two occassions: following the birth of a child, and the ‘Eid (holiday) following the Great Day. The sacrifice glorifies Allah and is an appeal to Him to accept us as His worshippers and guide us to the staright way (to accept the child and guide it). On each occasion, the sacrifice should be divided into three portions: One third for the poor; One third for one’s neighbours; One third for the family.
Even now I hear a lilting call from an area mosque. O Lord, open blinded eyes!
It is a truly beautiful call to prayer that resonates 24 hours a day around the world. There is never a moment in the day when Muslims are not prostrated before God worshipping Him. How can this be blinded eyes Leah?
Christians struggle to have a morning quiet time with God, yet Muslims are waking sometimes as early as 3am to pray for God to help them though the day and to worship Him and this day in and day out all year round.
The Muslims heart is one of worship. .. oh that Christians could know God in the same way.
As a Christian I used to sing a song entitled “Make my life a prayer for you, I want to do what you want me to, no empty prayers, and no white lies, no token prayers no compromise.
I am living that life now.. and for me it’s the truth that has set me free to worship Him who I have loved since childhood
Next time you hear the Athan.. the call to prayer. let it be a way of asking yourself, “am I truly worshipping God” ?
Hello. I’m highly offended by the arrogance of this propaganda to pray for muslims. God will never answer those prayers that would take us from being beilievers to non beleivers. Your prayers are sneaky and I don’t appreciate christians talking about what muslims beleive some of which are not true. if you want to share with other christians the differences in our faith, I suggest you go to the following site:
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/articles/tawheed_nuradeen.htm
http://islamtomorrow.com/bible/
We refuse to accept Jesus or anyone as a deity. God is One and deserves all forms of worship without any partners to share in His Dominion. And FYI we’ll be judged on the Day of Judgement through both our deeds and God’s mercy. We don’t decieve ourselves in waiting for Jesus or anyone to carry our burdens. No one will be held account for the sins of another. We’re responsible for our own action. Let each one stick to thier own beliefs and we’ll see what happens in the end. We don’t need your prayers for misguidance. If anyone chooses to change their religion, that’s up to them and Allah is the best of Judges. Thanks.
Carol and Tara,
I understand that you are offended by the words and deeds of Christians, but that is only because of what you have been taught. The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, John the Baptist and Jesus, as recorded in the holy books that came before Muhammad and the Qur’an, is not the god of Islam. What you are worshiping is a god of your imagination. Islam came after the Jews and Christians claiming to have the final religion for mankind. What you fail to realize is that Islam is not a continuation but a whole new way of life demanding adherence to a whole new set of laws and belief in a totally different god. If you want to know the one true God, and Jesus Christ who he has sent, the only way to know the truth is through reading the books that came before the Qur’an, for the Qur’an came much later and it is not in agreement with what came before. It is not the Muslims who should be offended, it is the Jews and Christians for the Muslims are now telling the Jews and Christians that what we have been told from the beginning is wrong, and that only the Qur’an has the the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You think it is okay for you to mock and discredit the Bible, but you think it is a sin to even question the Qur’an. This is the greatest of arrogance but all we can do is pray for you that you will see the error of your ways and seek the truth from the books that have come before. By the way, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is why Jesus came. All who believe & receive Jesus Christ for who he really is, they become new creatures in Christ. They have eternal live, they will never be condemned to hell for the debt to God was already paid, and they have crossed from death to live! For all those outside of Christ, there is nothing but judgment and condemnation awaiting them. The reason we pray for you and try to help you understand the truth is so you can be forgiven and have eternal life in heaven with God, too.
Joe,
I am not offended. Remember, I sat where you sat .. I was a missionary to Muslims. I spent hours every day pleading with them to find “completeness in worship” by seeing that Jesus was the hope of eternal life. Remember I participated and led 30 Day prayer groups for a number of years.
Believe me, I was well known around the world for my internet postings as a Christian who later became a Muslim.
Over a five year period I moved from a position of believing Islam to be a false religion, to seeing the love that Muslims have for God and their worship of Him to Islam alone fulfills the requirements of Romans 12:1-2 .. and in full knowledge of the mercy of God.. and my desire to submit everything to Him as an act of worship.. and wanting to renew my mind so that I would know His perfect will.. I said Shahada in 2007.
Carol, can you tell me why Tara is so offended? After reading the above post, I am reminded that true worshipers worship God in spirit and in truth. Worship that is led by the Holy Spirit is in total agreement with the truth of God’s word. You said you now believe the Islam alone fulfill the requirements of Romans 12:1-2, but that is not possible. Romans 12:1-2 can only be understood in light of chapters 1-11 of the book of Romans. We do not have the freedom to pick and choose certain parts of the Bible while throwing out others. Since you were a professing Christian who knew her Bible well, you don’t seem to get offended like Tara does, and you don’t seem to have a problem reading the writings of the Apostle Paul. Just remember that the renewing of your mind will come only as you meditate day and night on God’s word, not the Qur’an!
Tara is correctly offended because Christians make assumptions that Islam is a false demonic religion.
I became a Muslim after I looked into Islam and realised that most of what I read that is supposedly Islamic doctrine is incorrect.. there is only a partial knowledge by Christians of Islam and the problem with that is that partial knowledge produces fear and the early posts from the prayer network showed that for the most part people are fearful of Muslims and Islamic teaching.
Throw aside those thoughts about what you are taught is true Islam.. forget about going to a Masjid to convert people to Christianity and instead go and ask those Imams to teach you Islam.. I promise you .. you will never be the same again.
You say that only in reading Romans 1-11 will you understand Romans 12.. I disagree. The renewing of your mind comes not from within yourself.. It is God alone who renews the mind. Once a person knows the Mercy of God.. He alone then guides them to the truth.
I don’t have a problem reading Paul mainly because the thing that excites me about Islam is now much of what I read in the New Testament makes perfect sense in light of Islam. I liken it to a human body. Christianity is the skeleton, but Islam is the flesh.
I learned to love God through Christianity. I have learned to worship Him through Islam. In the Qur’an God says “Today I have perfected your religion for you and called it Islam.”
This is the way to the renewing of the mind.. submission to the will of God not man’s will or man’s interpretation of God’s will.
Where you read the bible and see clear pictures of the need for Jesus death and resurrectrion and Him as God.. I read the bible and see that all the Prophets including Jesus called mankind to worship God in purity and in truth and to look to Him alone for mercy .. To Him alone belongs our Worship, our repentance and our submission.
When I first became a Christian God the Father and the Creator of all things was the focus of the worship of the Church. Through the 30 plus years I was in the church.. 20 of them active in Church work through the missions, I saw a huge shift from the worship of God to the worship of Jesus..
If this happened in 30 years .. what has 2000 years done to the Church?
If you believe Christianity is the skeleton of Islam, then Islam has no skeleton, because without the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus and the coming of the Holy Spirit to inhabit justified believers there is no Christianity.
Charles that is because you are pre supposing that God needed the death and resurrection of Jesus to bring about man’s salvation. Islam thinks no such thing.
Muslims believe God sent Jesus as a Messenger to bring people back to true worship of God. Please don’t forget that the people of Israel were called to do the same thing to the nations about them.. this is basic missiology as described by Ralph Winter and those involved in the US Center for World Mission.
I did the Perspectives Course.. and most of the Old Testament is a call to believe in and worship God alone, both on an individual and on a national level. Each of the Prophets and the nation herself were called to do this but Israel was not obedient to this.
The use of skeleton is the fact that Jesus called people to a particular life style.. and most importantly to submission to and worship of God.. just as the Prophets had done in the OT. This is the Skeleton I am discussing and the Quran speaks of the People of the Book at the time of the Prophet who did call to God’s Oneness and not to a triune concept.
The divergence came with the mixed up pauline ideas of “becoming all things to all men in order to win some’. and the church from Nicea onwards under the direction of Constantine has not changed much since then adapting and changing to suit the generation it’s trying to reach.
Carol said, “Tara is correctly offended because Christians make assumptions that Islam is a false demonic religion.” I thought Tara said she was offended because Christians are praying for Muslims to see the light. Oh well, it doesn’t matter the reason, everything outside of the world of Islam seems to offend Muslims. Maybe you think I should be offended when Muslims and atheists and modern Scientists say that all religions are man made and that Jesus is not God in the flesh. It doesn’t offend me, but it makes me want to pray for them. What irritates me most of all is how ignorant people like yourself want to deny the truth of God and you have no concern for the many souls that you are going to take to hell with you.
Joe, rather than being accusingly personal in your replies.. if you truly think I am “ignorant”.. please give reasons for your beliefs and why you hold them?
Tara is approaching the situation from a different perspective to me.. but our outlook is the same.
Muslims are correctly offended when Prophets and God Himself are ridiculed by the world.. no less than Christians should be every time they hear the name of Jesus used as a swear word.. but how many Christians turn off the television when a movie comes on where such language is the norm? when did you last protest against it being used by people around you?
some verses from the Qur’an about itself
“This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah.” (2:2)
There shall come to you guidance from Me, and whosoever follows My guidance no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.” (2:38)
“it is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!” (41:44)
Right now around the world millions of people have committed the entire Qur’an to memory. Every night during Ramadhan billions of Muslims stand in prayer listening whilst the Qur’an is recited.
Throughout this month most Muslims will attempt to read through the Quran at least once in full…
How many Christians can recite the original bible in its own languages? Some can remember bible verses in English.. but that is about the extent of the average person who goes to church each week. .. Muslims live and breathe the Qu’ran many times during the day.. a minimum of 5 times when it’s recited during the daily prayers ..
Buddhists and Hindus may recite more than Christians, too, but that doesn’t make them more holy in God’s eyes. The Catholics prayer the Rosary over and over but that doesn’t get them closer to God or make them any more holy in God’s eyes, either. Christians become the righteousness of God in Christ!
By the way, I cannot trust the quotations you provided from the Koran, because I do not accept it as a book from God.
Joe, have you noticed how this discussion is going? I wil post quotes from the Bible and the Qur’an and express what i believe and why. You are only able to say to me “I cannot trust the quotations you provided from the Quran because I do not accept it as a book from God”.
God is much bigger than our man made box that we put him in. Romans 1 specifically states that God has placed the knowledge of Himself in creation.. so that mankind is without excuse.
Mankind has worshipped the Creator rather the Created as God. .. and this is the basis of all religions.. A call by the Prophets to call people back to God and His pure worship alone.. is being called false religion .. and why? because God is not allowed to be God by Christians who state that the death and resurrection of a man who also happened to be God is the ONLY way God could forgive sin and deal with it.
I prefer to worship God believing NOTHING is impossible for Him.
This will be my last comment for you. You remind me of what a pastor once said. “You would be surprised to hear what people will believe who do not believe the Bible.” Obviously you do not believe the Bible, at least not all of it. This site is primarily for Christians who believe the Bible. There are other sites out there for Muslims and Christians to debate. By the way. If you can be in California September 12-14, I would encourage you to go to:
Overcoming the Fear &
Facing the Muslim Challenge
Conferences & Workshops
Calvary Chapel Chino Hills
4201 Eucalyptus Ave, Chino, CA 91710
FREE ADMISSION
Saturday 9/12 Conferences 9:00 AM – Sunday 9/13 Workshops 4:00PM
Monday 9/14 Workshops 7:00PM
The Lord Jesus commanded us to make disciples of all nations. Many nations throughout the world are now under Islamic influence. As more Muslims are leaving these countries and immigrating to the U.S, the church has been given an unprecedented opportunity to reach them for Christ. Join us for three days of lectures and workshops that will help equip the body of Christ to present the Gospel message to Muslims.
Hear and learn from the world’s most knowledgeable speakers on this key topic; speakers will include: Qu’mous Zakaria Butros, Dr. Cynthia Pettross, Professor Daniel Scot, Apologist Sam Shamoun, Professor David Wood, and more.
“Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish Rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah, then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” (2: 75)
“And from those who say, ‘We are Christians’ We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that which they were reminded.” (5:14)
“O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad), explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture, and passing over much (leaving out without explaining).” (5: 15)
thanks for the invite, but I won’t attend. i know many of the speakers and have discussed with them in the past on some of the things
I am not debating you Joe, I am simply pointing out that what is being sent around the world as the basis for prayer, is not altogether correct. The only way to really know Islam is to put aside the box that it is incased in by the majority of Christians who are praying for muslims
The real fear comes from Christians and non muslims who try and tell the world what Islam is all about .. they can be no furthur from the truth. I was once told by an ex muslim that muslims never laugh. I wish he had known the muslims I live amongst. laughter is an important part of our day.. and the Prophet laughed a lot .
So please don’t believe all you hear .. go check it out for your self from the best of sources.. Muslims themselves.
n the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Merciful.
Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship.
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your way, and to me mine.
Surah 109
Carol, it has been a great pleasure to meet someone like you. i’ve read all your posts and support you. I need not say more. Whomever Allah guides, no one can misguide and whomever chooses to be astray, no one can guide. Thank you very much.
Tara,
It would be nice if you had come to this sight because you were seeking the truth. But it appears you also are like the blind leading the blind astray. Like Jesus said to the Pharisees of his day, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains” JN 9:41.
You think your god can do anything, but he cannot give you assurance of salvation from sin, Satan and hell, not now or ever! Please come back when you are more concerned about your eternal destiny. Jesus can open your blind eyes and you will find the truth you are looking for if you call upon him, but he won’t force you.
Joe, doesn’t it surprise you that someone like me who had “assurance of salvation” would go and seek it elsewhere?
Remember Jesus said to you that not every one who calls me Lord will enter into the Kingdom of God.. and likewise Christians in Hebrews are warned it’s a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
personally.. my life is richer and fuller and I am more acutely aware of my own need for His Mercy and for His mercy than I was as a christian because Christians never need to face the truth about their own sin. Awareness of sin is very much part of being a Muslim, and dealing with that sin in repentance and being reliant on His mercy is very much part of Islam
One scholar said it like this. ” The heart in its journey towards Allah is like a bird; its head is love, and its two wings are hope & fear. When the head and the two wings are sound and healthy, then the bird will fly well. If the head of the bird is cut off, it immediately dies, and when either or both wings are deficient, the bird cannot fly properly and it may become the victim of a hunter that passes by”
A muslim keeps love for God and Gods love for them in balance with fear of God and Hope in His Mercy.
my reference to Jesus saying not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom of God is to show you that not even a Christian can be assured of His salvation. There are numerous verses that say that it’s possible for anyone to lose their salvation
and if you are one of those who don’t believe that you can.. like I was before I looked into the subject .. then remember I was a born again Christian, so according to your criteria.. I never can lose my salvation either..
however as I said.. when you learn to submit and to worship God as a Muslim.. your desire to love, honour and serve Him in obedience and humility in acute awareness of how much you have to be thankful for for His ever present mercy.. over whelms you to the point where your whole life becomes an act of worship and gratefulness to Him.
Carol,
You said that you had assurance of salvation, but then you had to seek it elsewhere. If Jesus Christ was in you, he said he would never leave you nor forsake you. If you were a child of God and you had eternal life, it appears that for some reason you felt like you lost your salvation and you have now rejected the clear teaching of God’s word concerning redemption and salvation through the sacrificial Lamb of God, ie. Jesus Christ. You have now trampled underfoot the blood of Christ by which we are saved and you have considered it a worthless thing. If that is all true for you, the only thing I can say is that you must not have really been saved and there is no other salvation. Like the false prophet’s and lying teachers who claim to be doing God’s will, there are also many so called Christians who have a false sense of eternal security. The Bible teaches that everyone has already fallen short of the God’s glorious ideal and we all will be judged for our sin, or, in the case of Christians, Jesus Christ took the punishment for us. We have been redeemed! It only takes one sin to be guilty of breaking God’s law and making us guilty before God and will be condemned at the judgment. God’s standard is sinless perfection. No one is without sin and perfect. All the animal sacrifices in the Old Testament only temporally covered sin, until the time of Jesus, the perfect Lamb of God came to take away the sins of the world. Now, contrary to what you said, according to Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, and Romans 10:13, “EVERYONE who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” What was true for the Jews is true for the Muslims, and so called Christians. Though they are zealous for God, their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. “Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes” (Romans 10:4).
Joe, you simply do not understand what I am saying. I had full assurance of salvation.. I did not become a Muslim because I had no assurance.. you did not know me in my past life, so how can you tell me how I think or felt or what I knew.
I told you before.. my desire is to worship God on His terms.. not man’s terms. I’ve been on both sides of the fence.. fellowshipped with Christians and now spend my Ramadhan days surrounded by sisters and brothers in faith. Believe me, I NEVER in 30 years of being a Christian experienced the love, the absolute devotion to worship God and bring Him pleasure by every part of life being an act of worship and gratefulness for His mercy as I have encountered amongst Muslims.
Don’t you see.. you keep talking of salvation.. that for me is not the end result of my relationship with God. It is loving Him, Serving Him .. In Islam, I have found the Truth. The reality that it’s not enough to just rely on Jesus for salvation.. and miss out on the full knowledge and love of God as a result.
I don’t mean head knowledge of God.. I mean heart knowledge of Him. Job said this.. and I echo these words.. “my ears had heard, but now my eyes have seen.”
He graciously guided me to the faith that is perfect.. that fills every part of my life with knowledge of Him and His love.
This is how I now know my Creator
“I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm’s length, I draw near to him a fathom’s length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.”
Recognize the Prodigal Son analogy? With Islam Ive come home to where my Soul began it’s journey to God..
I give up, Carol. Enjoy your life.
Joe, I’m happy that you “gave up.” To continue seems to add more fuel to the fire. If anything, these discussions have made me thankful that I am not an intellectual. Religion will always sends its intellectuals to confuse. Bottom line: Jesus said “no man comes to the Father but by me.” God bless you for showing us your heart of love for our living Savior, the Son of the living God. It is a privilege to be a part of this outreach of prayer.
Esther,
I could not find the reply button to your comment. You said, “Religion will always sends its intellectuals to confuse.” I do not consider Carol to be intelligent. She flatly refuses to acknowledge the truth about history, the Bible and the Koran. Most likely she has really been a Muslim all her life. Her arguments are based on emotion, not logic. I know that you are referring to the fact that you don’t think there is any use in discussing doctrine with Muslims since only God can open their hearts and minds. When Jesus was confronting Satan, however, he confronted the lies with the truth of God’s word. All I wanted to do was help her to see the error of her ways. What I discovered from my discussion with Carol is the she would rather go along with those who want to twist and distort the facts about history, the Bible, and the Koran in favor of enjoying fellowship with her Muslim friends here on earth. I hope she at least enjoys her life on earth, because she won’t be enjoying herself when she stands before the just and righteous judgments of God.
Joe
Hi Joe,
There will be no comments from me on this subject. I do appreciate your love for God and for our Savior. Intellectual/intelligence mean nothing to me other than to point out that people use book sense and book learning to varnish over the confusion in their hearts. I surmised that Carol is a died died-in-the-wool Muslim. However, if I don’t learn anything else in this outreach, this I have learned and it is summed up pretty well in the entry for 22 August — I am to love the Muslim, the man/woman on thre street as well as the terrorist. God has a place for them in His heaven, but they won’t get there through argument. I found this out the hard way with my own family or with anyone that I know I am not reaching. I pray over them, give them the Word, pray with them and leave the increase to God. This afternoon I sat through a good half-hour of witnessing strife and stress in two people who were trying to make a point. Even though I had no entry in the conversation, I felt like a wrung out dish rag.
Again, Joe, you are a credit to the Kingdom for your knowledge of the Word and your love for the sinner.
Joe, I’m very disappointed you would think me a liar. I assure you I was a Christian.. can give you full details of my 18 years missionary experience, the bible college where I spent 2 years studying full time , the churches that supported me ..
Whether you choose to believe that or not is another matter. But the thing that has become so very evident in this discussion, is that my intention coming here was to help Christians understand the Muslim perspective on things..
This website is quick to show that there are a handful of Muslims becoming Christians.. well I assure you there are multitudes of Christians becoming Muslims.
I suggest you open your heart to more than what your church teaches you. At least I searched for truth outside the narrow corridor that is presented in churches and went on a voyage of discovery myself.. and as I have repeatedly told you.. it was my love of God not love of man that led me to surrender on His terms.
On Judgement Day we will both stand before Him.. The easy believism that goes with Christianity produces no fruit of lives that worship Him with every breath. As someone said recently Paradise doesnt come cheapily and it costs to get there. Christians believe that it cost Jesus his life.. but live as if it never happened. .. why.. because a Christian is never faced daily with reality and consequences of their sin.
A Muslim pays the price by seeing everyday the extent of their sin. Every prayer time produces a eaction like that of Isaiah who saw his sin and cried out “woe is me I am a man of uncliean lips”.. and like Isaiah knows the coals of fire that purges that sin and brings God’s mercy on his/her life.
This draws him/her to worship.. so that not one part of our day is NOT an act of worship. Allah becomes to us “closer than our jugular vein”.. to use His terms. Our life is connected to His love for us, and our love for Him, and our lives lived with fear and hope of Him in balance.
Carol, “opening your heart to more than what the church teaches”, “searching outside the narrow corridor”, and discovering yourself are the opposite of the way to heaven. Jesus himself said He is the narrow gate and the only way to heaven. Focusing on yourself, you will only find sin as you admit you have. Satan the accuser loves that you are focusing on your sin and deciding not to trust in Jesus for your salvation. A true Christian CAN live a life of sanctity, humility, and self sacrifice by the Holy Spirit, although I admit that most don’t. I appreciate your perspective Carol and your criticism, because it helps me to see the Muslim perspective. Thank you TDI for allowing me to participate in the discussion. I’m done.
May I also say, that it is a little amusing that you say you love Muslims and want to pray for them through Ramadhan, yet I come here as a Muslims who was a Christian, bring no friends with me, just appeal to you through my own life story and yet two of you have called me a “liar” publically.
I know my posts are on moderation, but all I have done is “helped” people see inside the mind of Islam as a western convert. I am not sure if the organisersare including westerners amomgst those who are becoming Muslims.. but considering that so many are, maybe oneday you wil be asked to pray for people such as me..
Is it such a threatening thing to hear that people in the west do become Muslim? and do so, for no other reason than it enables us to worship God in the way we long too.. and to see Jesus in the way we believe he intended.. as One who shows us the way to God Himself? Not as God Himself?
sorry.. that is meant to say “I’m not sure if the orgnaisers are including westerners who become Muslims amongst those they are calling you to pray for.. but considering so many are.. maybe you will be asked to pray for people such as me?
Carol,
What is the truth and who is calling who a liar? If you think I am calling you a liar, just remember this. Muslims like you first claimed that Christianity is a lie. It was nice talking to you but I have nothing more to say. If you want to know anything more about who Jesus Christ really is, I encourage you to ask the organizers of the forum. I promise, I will not take any more of your time.
Joe
Joe, unfortunately one of my posts before this one is waiting moderation. In it. I tell you I can supply evidence I was a well known Christian and can supply details of Churches, Mission Societies and Bible Colleges who knew me.
I am not meaning the liar is based on the subject material.. we will never agree on that ..( but I didn’t come here with the intention of making that the basis for speaking out). but simply that you stated you believe I was never a Christian to begin with, but always “most likely a Muslim. all her life”.
I promise you.. I am not a liar when it comes to my personal details of the journey I am on.
Okay people, we need to come to closure on the above discussion. Please keep any final thoughts to a few sentences.
Many have emailed me that the discussion has a) gone on too long to be meaningful and b) is just plain long-winded and repetitive with comments too long to be readable.
I like to give everyone freedom to speak their mind, but when other visitors complain to me, then it’s time to call a halt.
Thanks
This article is a surprise. I dont believe that How illiterate the writer is or how he can misunderstand the fact.
Near Muslims, there is absolutely no thought of physiological conceiving of Marry. There is not at all any place for this idea that any muslim could ever even think of this malacious concept.
God is uncreated, rest of every thing is Created. including the Christ. The created can never be God.
God can not be Imagined in Human or any form. So where is the question of Any physical imput may come in the Minds of Muslim.
Nor Any Muslim says that Christans have faith of this.
Come on . you cant be so rude.
Arif Shah,
I cannot speak for the author of the article, but I can speak to your idea that God “created” Jesus Christ. As you know, it takes a seed and and egg for a human to be born. In Jesus’ case, the seed was the imperishable word of God, the egg was in the human womb of Mary. The miracle of the incarnation is that the “Word of God” (which is divine in nature) became man. Jesus Christ is the one and only God/man. He was 100% divine and 100% human all at the same time. If your god is incapable of coming to earth and taking on human form, then I would argue that your god is not God Almighty. Your ideas about the Christ are very similar to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and every other cult or false religion. When it comes to the Jews, most are still just in rebellion. Remember, Jesus was a Jew as were all the first Christians. Only Christians believe that Jesus Christ and God in the flesh, who came from heaven, was crucified, died, buried, resurrected, and ascended back into heaven. We have the eye witness testimony of this fact recorded in the Holy Bible. You are free to believe it or not, but it is not rude for anyone to teach or preach this good news (gospel). It is rude for someone to try to keep others from hearing it!
Arif
You proved that quran is not the true word of god, because quran has contradicted WHO JESUS IS. Quran has contradicted the revelatiions of God to man.
Jesus is not created. Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.
Whose son is Jesus??
Can you imagine a human being born without a father? why
Can you imagine a human being giving life to the dead. ONLY GOD CAN.
Can you imagine a human being forgiving sins? ONLY GOD CAN.
Can you imagine a human being walking on water?
Can you imagine a human being DID NOT DIE??
Can you imagine a human being is with god in FLESH AND BLOOD?
Can you imagine a human being who went to heaven IN FLESH AND BLOOD and if comes back today 2010odd years later coming back to earth IN FLESH AND BLOOD?
Can you imagine this human being WILL JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD??
Can you imagine this human being will FIGHT THE DEVIL?
Can you imagine a human being then comes and KILLS SWINES???
Finally, to come to think of it HE IS CERTAINLY NOT A HUMAN BEING, but HE HIS SUPERHUMAN BEING and a super being is GOD.
Moreover, GOD DID NOT WANT THE FINAL PROPHETS OF THE MUSLIMS TO RESTORE ISLAM, BUT IT IS GOD HIMSELF WHO WILL RESTORE HIS OWN KINDGOM HERE ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN, ACCORDING TO THE PRAYER THAT JESUS HIMSELF TAUGHT US.
JESUS WAS TRULY HUMAN AND TRUELY DIVINE
JESUS WAS TRULY MAN AND TRULY GOD
JESUS IS TRULY THE SON OF GOD
JESUS IS THE TRULY THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, THE MESSIAH, THE REDEMEER, THE SON OF MAN, THE SON OF GOD, THE HOLY ONE OF GOD,
THE PURE AND SINLESS ONE, THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE,
YES GOD BECAME MAN AND LIVED AMONGST US, THE ONLY TRUE LIVING GOD.
Carol,
I can almost feel the tears of sympathy and love the torment of reason against ignorance as you were writing your posts and receiving your responses. I read all of the comments from the beginning to the end.
The Truth can not be contained, hence you cannot contain it within you, even though in your heart you know that what you write here, of Reason, Wisdom, Knowledge and Rational may be of no effect or use to the inoculated minds, but you keep on telling the Truth…. it is in reality YOU who are unknowing praying for the other lost souls.
Allah tells us:
16:125. Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them (People of the Book) in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.
And you have done just THAT, Allah (God with the most beautiful names) bless you sister.
You have been patient sister, I leave you with these verse:
2:153. O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.
To the others commentators with kindness; read the Quran with open heart and open mind, free of arrogance, free of pride. With the will of God, you shall know what you did not know before.
Peace
Carol,
Is Jesus Human? can you tell us who is his father ??
Even human being dies, whether you like it or not and every sacred book of all religions on this earth confirms the death of a humanbeing.
If Jesus then is human, so Jesus must DIE. And the only one and true word of god says that JESUS DIED.
History confirms the death of Jesus. Bible writers were witnessess to the death of jesus and bible gives you WITNESSESS names as well, unlike quran where NOT A SINGLE SOUL HAS WITNESSED MOHAMMAD’S VISIONS.
But what is truly confirmed about the visions of mohammad is that mohammad got these so called visions he was TORMENTED, he was CHOKED, and dear carol this person mohammad wanted TO COMMIT SUICIDE on several occassions. THIS IS WITNESSED AND CONFIMED.
Whether you accept the death of jesus or not will not change the course of history and the reason he died will also not change anyones concept as to why jesus came into this world.
The matter of fact is that Quran does not have an answer to the father of jesus nor does quran give you the reason for the virgin birth of jesus nor does quran fulfills the plan of god after adam and eve were cast away from paradise and then according to you is just a closed chapter after adam and eve disobeyed god.
In that case EVERY OTHER RELIGION ON PLANET EARTH BELIEVE THAT GOD FORGIVES THE SINS OF MAN, and thus Islam is no exception, there is nothing new that Islam brought for mankind.
Diago,
You have to ask yourself a fundamental question:
If it was God’s will (The One God that Abraham and Moses spoke of), if it was His will, could He not have made Jesus from a single mother only and completely human?
Is the God you imagine not that powerful enough to be able to make a human from a single parent as He created Adam from no parents?
For Carol and I and all the rest of Muslims, He is all-powerful, all-knowing, as the Quran tells us:
2:255. Allah (ie. God with most beautiful names). There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, the Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there that can intercede in His presence except as He permits? He knows what (appears to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass nothing of His knowledge except as He wills. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
By your same argument you can say that Moses was God because no other human being can throw his wooden stick and turn it into a massive snake or no human being can split the sea.
You say the Quran has nothing new to say, yet you are arguing about the Truth of Jesus (pbuh) that it’s telling you. If you mean that the Quran is not introducing a new God, you are right, the Quran confirms the ONE God who brought (124000 prophets to mankind) from Adam to Noah to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Jesus and finally Muhammad to carry our his final message which humanity could not bear at the time of Jesus,
4:157. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, yet so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
4:157. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
4:158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
4:159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
4:171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah anything but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
4:172. Christ disdains nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah.: those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
Arif & Archelogistof the wisdom of Allah the moon God.
You and Carol have still not answered my question.
You and me all are humans beings born of a seed of man and so is jesus ONLY HUMAN according to your so called scriptures.
On the other hand, we dont need scritpures to tell us that man dies.
Let it be known that all scriptures claim that human being dies.
So also just as we die, so did jesus the human being MUST DIE, without the shred of doubt.
If there is anything contradictory then THERE IS NO TRUTH IN IT.
Furthermore, you and me are born of a seed of man, but jesus(meaning GOD SAVES) is not born of a seed of man.
So just as you and me are born of a seed we are seeds of the seed of our fathers, and thus we become humankind.
So, too jesus whom you claim is only human then and born of a seed of man, CAN YOU TELL ME THE NAME OF THE FATHER OF JESUS, ACCORDING TO YOUR SO CALLED BOOK THE QURAN.
So, according to the word of god (THE TRUE WORD OF GOD), because jesus is human JESUS DIED. ARIF, THIS IS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, wether you like it or not and whether you accept it or not.
All what is quoted by you holds no truth about Jesus.
If jesus is only human then there is no need to talk anything about ‘TRUTH’. Because the truth then would be that jesus is human but i will comment on one thing, which you quoted from your quran, can you tell me WHO DIFFERS ON THE DEATH OF JESUS?? THE MUSLIMS INDEED because 700 YRS LATER it is the book called quran which DIFFERED ON THE DEATH OF JESUS, which was written with this twist ABOUT THE DEATH OF JESUS.
correction.
So, too jesus whom you claim is only human then and be born of a seed of man??, ….
Diage .. God willing you are having a good weekend.
The reality is. you have no proof that Jesus is God.. you have instead a scripture that says your own reality is based on faith.
The other reality is that Islam says that just as God created Adam.. and i know you believe he was created and not born.. so also was Jesus. He did not need a human father because just as the bible says Mary found herself with child.. so also Islam teaches the same thing.. no human male involved.
God said “be” and He was.. just like in Genesis Chapter 1. “God said.. “Let there be light” and there was. and God saw that it was good.
Scripture is consistent with scripture.. when you consider Islam. Islam says God did what He had done at creation.. and created Jesus by saying “be” and He was. .
Is this too hard for God?
I noticed having said I don’t know the Old Testament you have negelected to comment on my discussions from Genesis 1-3 which is disappointing since I wsill not discuss the protoevangelium until you comment on the first three chapters of Genesis.
May I ask you respectively because many Christians don’t know about the proto evangelium?? you do know what it is don’t you?
May I suggest that this discussion take place in a spirit of understanding rather than constant attacking? Maybe I am reading your posts in the wrong way.. but they seem to be more intent attacking Islam than defending Christianity.
I am using your own Scriptures to defend my perspective on Islam and Christianity because i have looked into Christianity intimately as a Christian and Bible teacher.. yet you have not used your own scriptures to defend your own perspective.
Carol,
Islam cannot prove that Allah is God. But history proves that Allah is the moon God. It seems you are quite ignorant of pre-islamic history. Furthermore, likewise there is no proof that mohammad spoke to god ever, but there is proof that he was always being chocked by some spirit and he used to go into trance and top of the mountain and wanted to commit suicide ON SEVERAL OCASSIONS.
Carol if one has no faith then he has no God. Adam had no faith in God when God told him not to eat the fruit and thus disobeyed God, did he??? Exactly, but he put his faith in the Devil and believed the devil. For me you seem to be a lost case without presence of mind and do not know what you are saying.
Carol, what a pity, WHO CAN PROVE GOD HIMSELF? but we have witnesses who have heard god saying twice this is my son with whom i am well pleased, further we have the ascention of jesus into heaven, we have 100s of witness who have experienced jesus, besides stephen, etc. CAROL!! TODAY we have muslims testifying Jesus just as the apostle who testified jesus after his death and resurrection proving who jesus is and the bible is clear and loud about the visions and dreams before the last days. I have muslims telling me who jesus is. Praise the Lord.
I do not have to prove anything, but jesus himself is proving who he is because the last 48hours of his life has been twisted by man AND YOU BELIVE A BOOK THAT WAS WRITEEN 700yrs AFTER JESUS DIED rather than WHAT WAS WITNESSED AND WRITTEN and so I do not have to prove to anyone what god has revealed – IT IS GOD WHO IS REVEALING HIMSELF TO MANKIND, be it muslims, be it christians, be it hindus, be it atheists, etc.
It baffles me to see that you are belittling yourself by quoting from the bible WHAT PLEASES U, even devil quotes scriptures and hallmark of muslims to reject n quote what they wish.
Furthermore, it is confirmed by muslim scholars that mohammad never spoke to god directly unlike the prophets of the bible, it was always thru a spirit.
Exactly, Carol nothing is hard to god, he spoke from a burning bush, a pillar of fire and wind, etc. now why did god want to create a human without a father? and yes jesus was human and because he is human JESUS DIED.
It is hard for a human being to die?? ONLY TRUTH WILL SET MANKIND FREE FROM THE DEVIL.
Yes you conveniently quote the old testament too about Adam, so like Adam jesus too died, but you have lost track as to why jesus was born and why god according to you STARTED A NEW CREATION WITH JESUS.
Exactly, JESUS IS THE NEW TESTAMENT, whom you HAVE REJECTED and it is for such a people that Jesus said to remain steadfast lest you fall prey to the wolf in sheeps clothing.
Yours is a sorry state. Muslims say jesus is human but yet this human being WHO IS NOT COMPREHENED BY HUMAN KIND say that this human being did not die. If you do not accept that jesus died then you are going against God himself. Your rejection that he died strengthens WHO JESUS IS. Praise the Lord.
So the truth of the matter is that EVERY HUMAN BEING DIES AND SO DID JESUS DIE. You cannot ride on two boats.
Quran reiterates that human beings die confirms that jesus died saying that all prophets before mohammad passed away and (goes on to reenforce : so if DIED OR KILLED …..
Diago,
Just as the Quran tells us you did not take its proposal!
3:62. This is the true account: There is no god except Allah. and Allah.He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
First of all the Quran does not say “every” prophet died before prophet Muhammad (pbuh), it says “MANY were the apostles who died before thee”.
Secondly, Quran tells us that Jesus (pbuh) has not died but will come back for as his second coming and will DIE. Just because he has not died yet does not mean he wont die. Surely Adam lived around a 1000 years and by the God’s will.
Thirdly, Yes it is right that Muhammad did speak to God through Angle Gabriel, the Quran implies so did Jesus, for it was only “Moses to whom God spoke directly”. There were many other prophets whom God spoke INdirectly to, That does not negate their prophethood.
Diago,
The Quran can be proven to be the word of God if only you are a wise and logical person>
One of the many reasons is that there are no contradictions within it, there are no statements that contract science, many of which you find in the Bible and and many scientific proofs contained within the Quran
See here: http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index.php
More and more scientist are amazed at the statements within the Quran that could not have possibly been know 1400 years ago (many converts are scientists and scholars) , where as there are many contradicting statements not only scientifically but of any kind that exists in the Bible; for example Luke says one thing about an even and Matthew says another. – Can GOD contradict His messages in his book?
Peace.
Carol
Following are from Hadits THE SPOKEN WORDS OF MOHAMMAD :
Volume 2, Book 21, Number 245:
Narrated ‘Abdullah :
A person was mentioned before the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and he was told that he had kept on sleeping till morning and had not got up for the prayer.
The Prophet said, “Satan urinated in his ears.”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 509:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: ‘Ha’, Satan will laugh at him.”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 516:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 477:
Narrated Al-Bara (bin Azib):
The Prophet, after the death of his son Ibrahim, said, “There is a wet-nurse for him (i.e. Ibrahim) in Paradise.”
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 541:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Paradise and Hell (Fire) quarrelled in the presence of their Lord.
Quran sura Qaf 50:30
“On that Day We will say to Hell-fire, “Have you been filled?’ It will say, ‘Are there some more?’ ”
SURAH 5:51
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends .
How active was the Devil thru his spoken words.
Do anyone need more than this??
Do any one needs justification and explanation to the above??
Yes Islam is Flesh – IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
May Allah Guide You in reading the Hadiths.
Diago,
Your quotes of hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) don’t do justice to your argument, as a matter of fact it proves the opposite of your reasoning.
The prophet had explained many social, political and religious issues in his own words to the pagan, illiterate, backwards people of Arabia of the time, a people who before embracing Islam would bury their own infant girls alive as sign of disgrace.
He could not have possible said, “blow your noses because this is where the microscopic and dirty bacteria and viruses accumulated.” most Muslims nowadays know that.
Such Hadiths are exactly the reason why when Europeans considered water to be “Evil” in the Dark Ages and would not bathe for weeks, the Muslims used to wash themselves at least 5 times a day for prayer.
He has also mentioned in another hadith that satan lives underneath the uncleaned nails.
Can you guess why?
3:7. He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity [disease] follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
You have managed to post one verse of the Quran, out of the context .
Even so, that verse clearly implies the full authority of God over everything living and non-living, be it the smallest atom or hell fire. Moreover, it shows the submission and the changing state of the fire as It warns mankind of the limitless of His justice, power and punishment.
HOWEVER, the amazing thing is that you cannot find anything similar to the style of the Quranic narration in the Prophets Hadiths or visa versa. It is just another proof that the Quran was not his words.
Diago,
Your quotes of hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) don’t do justice to your argument, as a matter of fact it proves the opposite of it.
The prophet had explained many social, political and religious issues in his own words to the pagan, illiterate, backwards people of Arabia of the time, a people who before embracing Islam would bury their own infant girls alive as sign of disgrace.
He could not have possible said, “blow your noses because this is where the microscopic and dirty bacteria and viruses accumulated.” most Muslims nowadays know that.
Such Hadiths are exactly the reason why when Europeans considered water to be “Evil” in the Dark Ages and would not bathe for weeks, the Muslims used to wash themselves at least 5 times a day for prayer.
He has also mentioned in another hadith that satan lives underneath the uncleaned nails.
Can you guess why?
3:7. He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity [disease] follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
You have managed to post verses of Quran, out of the context.
Even so, that verse clearly implies the full authority of God over everything living and non-living, be it the smallest atom or hell fire. Moreover, it shows the submission and the changing state of the fire as It warns mankind of the limitless of His justice, power and punishment.
HOWEVER, the amazing thing is that you cannot find anything similar to the style of the Quranic in the Prophets Hadiths or any other. It is just another proof that the Quran was NOT his words.
I reiterate what I penned last Please read Koran (13:17; 29:61; 31:24 [These show that the Pagan Arab and Muhammad worshipped the same Deity and in pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity… Now look at the index of the quran and you will find even chapters are named after these natural objects and these also being incorporated therein.
My dear if a pagan calls their God as God does not make his God the TRUE LIVING GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, MOSES.
If you call God Allah does not make him the TRUE LIVING GOD, because it’s the moon god for sure and the 21st century proof is evident – moon on top of mosques, moon on books, moon inscriptions on articles, moon on the flags as well and do not forget the sword.
If I am a cow worshiper and when I converse with people about my god, I would then be referring to my GOD (the cow god) and not the God of Abraham.
Similarly, I have given you quotes from Koran about these pagans who referred to their god as Allah the moon god, etc. SO DEAR Aof W ALLAH IS NOT THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, MOSES.
Interesting, the Koran in Sura 25:5 it says that the unbelievers say: “…….tales of the ancients he hath put in writing! And they are dictated to him morn and even”. Mohammed’s response which of course was Allah’s response? “Of a truth, it is they who have put forward an iniquity and falsehood” (Sura 25:4). “Say: ‘He has sent it down who knoweth the secrets of the Heavens…” (25:6).
Therefore, very interestingly, Muhammad NEVER denied the borrowing, but denied that these were myths and it is he himself who CLAIMED THEY WERE INSPIRED. He himself put the question and he himself answered.
In Surah al-Furqan 25:5, it is very clear that the unbelievers accuse him of listening to old stories, dictated to him by someone else.
In sura 16.105, the angel of revelation tells us, “We know very well that they say: it is only a mortal man who has taught him “. So it is very clear from this statement that even before the quran was printed these were the things that was penned down just to refute some ones unbelief about him.
Dear, Thanks for quoting 5:82. ‘’’Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans’’’. And Aof W, yet you want to claim that Allah is the God of Abraham, Issac, Moses. (YOU ARE TRYING TO BE IN GOOD BOOKS WITH THE CHRISTIANS DEAR).
And then this verse from your book which you assume is the word of God says : nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians. (YOU ARE TRYING TO PROVE TO ME ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HOLDS NO TRUTH AT ALL.
Now read : 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
About historical facts – AofW very sad you history memory must be refreshed. – Now turn to the quran – THE SPOILS OF WAR. You cannot hide the truth about mohammad. He is the one who went about Iwith a few of his followers on horse back from place to place with swords as well and what do we read : Sura 8:1 – Say, “The spoils of war belong to GOD and the messenger.” It is clearly proved that the spread of your religion was encouraged by mohammad to his followers IN THE NAME OF RELIGION AND IN THE NAME OF ALLAH and the loots were then distributed first it was to Allah and to the Messenger and it is confirmed that it was distributed to his men after taking the best for himself and so we see that land, material, wealth and WOMEN were distributed and that is why we see concubines and slaves at the behest and not forgetting the RAIDS THAT MOHAMMAD HIMSELF TOOK PART and finally even Jews were killed.
You can see the splinter in your neighbours eyes, but you cannot see the log into your own.
My dear Crusaders came into existence BECAUSE OF MOHAMMAD’S FOLLOWERS AND THEIR THREATHENING FORCES. Does not the quran tell you to fight the enemy in battle???
Yes, mohammad, the quran and the Islamic empire created the fight and were the cause of it and when the defendants want to defend themselves, you then point fingers at them for having defended themselves.
Finally, you have quoted the bible without knowing anything without any connection – and it shows the shallowness of your comprehension of the TRUE WORD OF THE LIVING GOD OF ABRAHAM ISSAC AND MOSES.
Al Baidawi has commented on the miraculous birth of Jesus saying, “That distinction sets Christ apart from other humans and messengers, because he was born without any human embrace or relationship.”
Al Fakhr al Razi comments thus Concerning the words, “I bestow on thee a faultless boy,” he said, “Faultless means three things: first, that he is without sin; second, that he grew in integrity, as it is said that he who has no sin is chaste and in the growing plant there is purity; third, he was above reproach and pure.” And “We make him a revelation for mankind” means his birth is a sign to mankind, as he was born without a father. “A mercy from Us” means mankind will be blessed by the manifestation of these signs for they will be overwhelming indications of his truthfulness and will make the acceptance of his word more likely.
Al Imam Abu Jaafar al Tabari said in explanation of the words “faultless boy”, basing it on the saying of Abu Amr, “the chaste boy is pure from sin.” Thus the Arabs say, “a youth pure and chaste, outstanding and excellent.”. Sorry, You cannot understand scriptures because GOD IS SPIRIT and anyone who wish to know God must have the spirit of god poured out to mankind, thus you will be guided to the TRUTH.
Dearest Diago,
With all do respect, you have a mass of incorrect information about Islam and history of Islam, which I believe you have accepted from anti-Islam sources to discredit the Quran, maybe out of arrogance; it cannot be ignorance since you ARE searching, but only searching with a heart stained and full of prejudice against Islam.
[Quran, 41:37] “Among His (God) proofs are the night and the day, and the sun and the MOON. Do not prostrate before the sun, nor the MOON; you shall fall prostrate before the GOD who created them, if you truly worship Him alone.”
If you are a just person Diago, the above verse should be enough of an answer and enough of an evidence for you to accept that Muslims do not worship the moon and neither did the Quran approve of it or the people of the past. The Quran was in fact revealed to inform and admonish the Pagans as to their wrong doings; worshiping any other than God is the only sin He will not forgive Diago.
[Quran, 4:48.] “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.”
Since as you know, being a devout “researcher” on Islam as you are, Muslims take the Quran as the absolute word of God over any specious hadiths (just as many specious verses added to the Gospels) or anything that a “scholar of Islam” could utter.
Dearest Diago,
It is only a SYMBOLE, even if some, and I repeat, some muslims use it, it pure and strickly serves an identification and a symbolic purpose…. Just as the Star of David.
“The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.”
Although no one knows exactly why, the crescent moon, most historical scholars agree that it unjustly came to be a symbol for some Islamic countries’ rulers, hundreds of years after the death of prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Some say it is indicative of the first day of a historical lunar calendar or it initiated from a dream of an Ottoman ruler, others say it was adapted into Ottoman Empire from the previous Byzantium beliefs, after which, it was implemented in some other Islamic countries.
“The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city’s flag even before the birth of Christ.
Diago,
Try to understand the Quran and Islam, without prejudice, bring a lowly spirit and free of arrogance.
As for myself, much like many westerners have accepted the message of Quran as the truth, due to the following:
* Its numerous scientific miracles that could not have possibly be known 1400 years ago.
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index.php
* Its historical proofs and predictions that Muhammad (pbuh) could in no way, shape of form, have known 1400 years ago
* For the fact that, unlike the Bible, it is free of inconsistency and discrepancies of facts and historical references.
(please do not quote me any out of context verse with regards to the Quran laws and rules, they are very subjective just as you will find many of them in the Bible, if you can find any at all, bring factual inconsistencies in the Quran like the ones so evident in the Bible: see here:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
* For the fact that there’s only ONE Quran and not thousands of different versions of it, like the Bible.
Diago,
Try to understand the Quran and Islam, without prejudice, bring a lowly spirit and free of arrogance.
As for myself, much like many westerners have accepted the message of Quran as the truth, due to the following:
* Its numerous scientific miracles that could not have possibly be known 1400 years ago.
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index.php
* Its historical proofs and predictions that Muhammad (pbuh) could in no way, shape of form, have known 1400 years ago
* For the fact that, unlike the Bible, it is free of inconsistency and discrepancies of facts and historical references.
please do not quote me any out of context verse with regards to the Quran laws and rules, they are very subjective just as you will find many of them in the Bible, if you can find any at all, bring factual inconstancies in the Quran like the ones so evident in the Bible: see here:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
* For the fact that there’s only ONE Quran and not thousands of different versions of it, like the Bible.
* I have accepted the Quran as the absolute world of God since it does not hold many of superstitious references held as popular belief of not the Pagan Arabs (like the moon God of your reference) of the time, but many people including the Romans and the Persians did hold them until many later years
* I have accepted the Quran as the absolute word of God since it does not hold many of superstitious references held as popular belief of the Pagan Arabs of the time (like the moon God of your argument) , but many people including the Romans and the Persians did hold them until many later years
AW – Words from the mouth of your prophet are enough PROOF to understand his mentality. Why you are not doing justice to THE LIVING GOD. All that your prophet speaks is about the Devil in the hadits, HE WAS NEVER INSPIRED BY GOD and NEITHER BY AN ANGEL OF GOD. It is a spirit that caught him all thru. IT IS CONFIRMED BY HADIT THAT MOHAMMAD WANTED TO COMMIT SUICIDE ON SEVERAL OCCASSIONS AND HE WAS ALWAYS TORMENTED. MOHAMMAD CANNOT ESCAPE HADITS AND HISTORY.
SO WHAT ARE THE SOURCES OF QURAN??
The answer PAGANISM, THE TALMUD, THE APOCRYPHA, AND OTHER BOOKS OF FABLES AND LEGENDS! Meccan Arabs went on to say that the Qur’an was nothing but the fairy-tales of the ancients (Sura al-An`am 6:25).
The prophet TRANSFERRED to ISLAM the beliefs and practices of the HEATHEN PAGAN ARABS, especially into the ceremonies of the pilgrimage to Mecca.
1. The birth of Christ in Sura 19:22-34 come from the “The History of the Nativity of Mary and the Savior’s infancy.”
2. Alexander the Great as we have seen come from the “Romance of Alexander.”
3. The Seven Heavens in Sura 17:46; 23:88; 41:11; 65:12, comes from the Indo-Iranian sources in both Hindu and Zoroastrian scriptures.
4. Sura 11:9 we find God’s throne above the waters. This comes from the Jewish Rashi
5. In Sura 7:44, there is mention of a wall called Aaraf. This comes from the Jewish Midrash.
6. Suras 15:17; 37:7; 67:5 we find Satan listening stealthily and being driven away with stones. This story we find in Jewish writings, about Genii “listening behind the curtain in order to gain knowledge of what is to come.”
7. Sura 1:29 talks about hell being full. In the Rabbinic book Othioth Derabbi Akiba 8:1, we find the same thing.
8. Sura 24:24 is found in the Jewish Talmud (Cheiga 16 Taanith 11).
9. The traditions of Mount Caf is a garbled and misunderstood version of the passage in Hagigah.
10. The Creation of Adam (sura 2:28-33) resembles the Midrash Rabbah on Leviticus, Parashah 19, and Genesis, Parashah 8 ; and Sanhedrin 38.
11. Various Suras also recount that God commanded the angels to worship Adam (Suras 7:10-26; 18:48; 20:115; 37:71-86). This agrees with the account in the Midrash of Rabbi Moses.
12. Cain and Abel (Sura 5:35) resembles the Mishna Sandhedrin 4:5. The conversation of Cain and Abel is taken from the Targrum of Jerusalem.
13. The conversations of Noah when they were building the ark is from the Sandhedrin 108
14. The story of Abraham being saved from Nimrod’s fire (suras 2:260; 6:74-84; 21:52-72; 19:42-50; 26:69-79; 29:15-16; 37:81-95; 43:25-27; 60:4 etc… All stories about Abraham have been shown to be from the Jewish Midrash Rabbah, see Tisdall and Geiger.
15. Muhammad often refers to God as “rabb,” meaning “Lord.” Sometimes as “Lord of the Worlds, see sura 56:79; 82:29 83:6. Also at the head of each Sura we see God being called “The Merciful,” (Sura 55:1, 78:3). This term was used before Islam, by the pagan Arabs. It has been found in South Arabian inscriptions.
16. The story of the Seven sleepers (sura 18:8-26) comes from the legend that arose around the 5th century, and spread all over Europe and Asia. It originated from a Syrian Bishop named James Sarug.
17. The denial of the crucifixion of Jesus, see Sura 4-157-158, comes from the “apocryphal book Travels of the Apostles,”
Interesting, the Koran in Sura 25:5 it says that the unbelievers say: “…tales of the ancients he hath put in writing! And they are dictated to him morn and even.
“Two important passages in the Koran indicate that he may well have had a Jewish teacher, probably a rabbi.
In sura 25.5f., the unbelievers accuse him of listening to old stories, dictated to him by someone else.
Muhammad does not deny the human teacher, but insists his inspiration is divine.
In sura 16.105, the angel of revelation tells us, “We know very well that they say: it is only a mortal man who has taught him.
“Besides learning from particular individuals, by visiting the Jewish quarter, Muhammad learned from direct observation the rites and rituals of Jewish practice. In any case, the Arabs who came into contact with the Jewish communities had already acquired a knowledge of Jewish customs, stories, legends, and practice; much of this material is to be found in pre-Islamic poetry.”
Sura 16 that says, “it is only a mortal man who has taught him” the context is that the Koran only came from mortal man and not God, The borrowing was never denied!
In Sura 2:100, and 16:103 Muhammad says this, “Whatever verses we cancel, or cause thee to forget, we bring one better or like it.” First, what’s amazing is, in an earlier verse (v.20) he challenges people to “produce a sura like it.” And here he is canceling them. Looks like God was violating his own law. But why would God have Muhammad cancel verses and bring other ones just like it or better?
Secondly, notice in this verse that Mohammed “forgot” something God told him. So now we have some of God’s message lost because Muhammad has a bad memory.
Let’s Go through some of the Verses that Muhammad cancelled to illustrate the change in the Koranic Text.
1. Let’s start with the Satanic verses. According to one version of these verses Muhammad had an early revelation in Mecca, which allowed the intercession of idols: “Do you consider Allat and Al-Uzza and Al-Manat, the third the other? Those are swans exalted; Their intercession is expected…”
Some time after Muhammad received another revelation canceling the last three lines and substituting them with what we find now in Sura 53:21-23., which omits the part about the Pagan gods interceding.
Both versions had been recited publicly. Mohammed’s explanation was that SATAN had DECEIVED HIM and inserted the false verses WITHOUT HIM KNOWING IT!
Problem is, if Satan deceived him in this part of the Koran WITHOUT HIM KNOWING IT, How do we know that Satan did not deceive him in another place in the Koran WITHOUT HIM KNOWING, AND THAT VERSE IS STILL IN THE KORAN TODAY?
2. The command to stone adulterers was changed to 100 stripes sura 24:2
3. The “sword” verse Sura 9:5 supposedly annuls the 124th verse that originally encouraged tolerance (cf 2:256), yet in other places it urges Muslims to “fight those who believe not” (9:29). and fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them (9:5), of course here’s a CONTRADICTION!
4. A contradiction can be found in the fact that the Koran claims that there can be “no changes to the word of God” (10:65). For there is none that can alter or change the words of God (6:34). But here Muhammad is canceling verses Sura 2:100. Most of the time you see the corrected verses near the ones being corrected. The reason for the abrogation of verse is quite clear. There are many contradictions in the Quran, and Muhammad said you can’t find any or else its not God’s word, “”Can they not consider the Koran? Were it from any other that God, they would surely have found in it many contradictions” (sura 4:84
For the Heathen Arabs, the jinn were invisible but were capable of taking various forms, such as those of snakes, lizards and scorpions. If a jinn entered a man it rendered him mad or possessed [like Muhammad claimed] Muhammad…MAINTAINED A BELIEF IN THESE SPIRITS: ‘in fact the prophet went so far as to RECOGNIZE THE EXISTENCE OF HEATHEN GODS, classing them among the demons (see sura 37:158)…these primitive superstitions…held their ground in [Muslim] Arabia…[and] spread over the rest of the [Muslim] world…Mohammed’s own beliefs in jinns are to be found in the Koran…Sura 72 (entitled ‘The Jinn’) 6:100…6:128…37:158…55:14… The angel Gabriel is spoken of as a companion of Muhammad, just as though he were a jinni accompanying a poet, and the same word ‘nafatha,’ blow upon, is used of an ENCHANTER, OF A JINNI inspiring a poet and of Gabriel revealing to Muhammad”
Muhammad also classed the Sabians and the people of Zoroaster as the “people of the book.” Now these Sabians were those who were “…the people of the book…[who] worshipped the stars and admitted to the existence of astral spirits….Insofar as the Sabians may have influenced Muhammad, we may note the prevalence of oaths by stars and planets in the Koran (Sura 56:75: ‘I swear by the falling of the stars…’ Sura 53 entitled ‘The Star,’ verse 1: ‘By the start when it plunges. The God of the Bible condemns Astrological observations, see Deuteronomy 4:15, 19; 18:10-12
What is a soothsayer? One who practices divination, generally associated with the occult sciences. Hinduism Zoroasterism, Mithaism all have laments of astrology in them. We see in sura 15:16 “We set THE signs of the ZODIAC in the heavens…” Islam condones not condemns Astrology. In sura 53:45 Muhammad refers to “Sirius,” the dog star worshipped by the pagan Arabs.
Dear dago:
Instead of directing you to conclude that it is from the SAME God, such consistencies with previous scriptures only increase your disbelief and deviation from the Truth:
Just as God tells us in the Quran, instead of :
Do they not ponder these words (of God)? Has anything come to them (people of the book) that did not come to their ancestors the previous peoples? (Quran al-Mu’minun: 68)
This is the path of your Lord – straight. We have made the Signs clear for people who remember. (Quran al-An’am: 126)
Certainly those who argue about the Signs of God without any authority having come to them have nothing in their breasts except for pride which they will never be able to vindicate. Therefore seek refuge with God. He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing. (Surat al-Mu’min: 56)
Who hears the Signs of God recited to him and then persists in his arrogance just as if he had never heard them. Give him the news of a painful punishment. (Surat al-Jathiyah:
When they are told, ‘Follow what God has sent down to you,’ They say, ‘We are following what we found our fathers doing.’ What, even though their fathers did not understand a thing and were not guided! (Surat al-Baqarah: 170)
I will divert from My Signs all those who are arrogant in the earth without any right. If they see every Sign, they will not believe in it. If they see the way of right guidance, they will not take it as a way. But if they see the way of error, they will take that as a way. That is because they denied Our Signs and paid no attention to them. (Surat al-A’raf: 146)
Who could do greater wrong than someone who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord and then turns away from them, forgetting all that he has done before? We have placed covers on their hearts, preventing them from understanding it, and heaviness in their ears. Though you call them to guidance, they will nonetheless never be guided. (Surat al-Kahf: 57)
continued:
Have you seen him who has taken his whims and desires to be his god? Will you then be his guardian? Do you suppose that most of them hear or understand? They are just like cattle. Indeed they are even more astray! (Surat al-Furqan: 43-44)
It is He Who sent down the Book to you from Him: verses containing clear judgements – they are the core of the Book – and others which are open to interpretation. Those with deviation in their hearts follow what is open to interpretation in it, desiring conflict, seeking its inner meaning. No one knows its inner meaning but God. Those firmly rooted in knowledge say, ‘We have faith in it. All of it is from our Lord.’ But only people of intelligence pay heed. (Surat Al ‘Imran:7)
If you obeyed most of those on earth, they would misguide you from God’s Way. They follow nothing but conjecture. They are only guessing. (Surat al-An’am: 116)
But there are some people who trade in distracting tales to misguide people from God’s Way knowing nothing about it and to make a mockery of it. Such people will have a humiliating punishment. When Our Signs are recited to such a person, he turns away arrogantly as if he had not heard, as if there was a great weight in his ears. So give him news of a painful punishment. (Surah Luqman: 6-7)
CAROL SAID:
How many Christians can recite the original bible in its own languages? Some can remember bible verses in English.. but that is about the extent of the average person who goes to church each week. .. Muslims live and breathe the Qu’ran many times during the day.. a minimum of 5 times when it’s recited during the daily prayers.)
F.Y.I in the muslim world specially in mid-eastern countries quran although writen in arabic CANNOT BE FULLY UNDERSTOOD BY THE ARABS THEMSELVES IT IS A CLASSICAL TEXT ((Yes I have spoken & this is confirmed). A LAYMUSLIM CANNOT UNDERSTAND.
F/more, NO ONE (OTHER THAN ARABIC SPEAKING PEOPLE) who read quran in arabic AS THEY ARE TOLD TO READ ONLY IN ARABIC CANNOT COMPREHEND WHAT THEY ARE READING. SO WHAT IS THE USE OF READING (but Carol implies otherwise) – THEY MUST REFER TO ENGLISH VERSIONS AND THERE ARE MANY ENGLISH VERSIONS OF QURAN.
So Dear Friends, such boasting will not help, these are all arguments which do not HELP OUR SOULS.
Dear AW, all the quranic verses which you are quoting are ARGUMENTATIVE. A person who reads quran is automatically taken to the realms of CONFRONTATION. THERE IS NOTHING TO BENEFIT HIS SOUL. Yes every verse that you are quoting proves that Quran is not the word of god because NO CHRISTIAN has confirmed that yours is the word of god, but the Quran confirms the Torah and Injeel are Gods words.
By the way, if i speak with a sun worshiper in english and he refers to his sun-god as god and i refer to my god as god, v both r not talking about the same god. Similarly, arabs christians since their language is arabic the God that they refer to is the same god as we believe. moreover muslims claim that they too belive in one god concept n refers to abraham, moses, etc.
YOU CHOOSE WHAT YOU WANT AND REJECT WHAT YOU WANT. Eg. You even chose words of jesus half way thru and swallowed the rest. Your claims are based on falsehood.
What you have just done is trying to come to terms with christians and jews (as in the quran) which further proves unauthenticiy of your prophet and your book, just as you conveniently quoted the christians bowing and the jews bowing, so you accept what and when you want and reject what you want WHEN YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS. You do not practise what you preach rather you boast with empty words from the quran without PUTING IT INTO PRACTICES YOURSELVES.
Now you have conveniently quoted the vatican, (WE ARE NOT SURPRISED) But the living God is surprised by your penning. REMEMBER NO CHRISTIAN ACCALIM MOHAMMAD AS A PROPHET OF GOD NOR A MESSENGER OF GOD BCOZ HE IS A FALSE PROPHET INDEED AS WARNED BY OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT. YOU ARE MAKING A MOUTAIN OUT OF A MOLE HILL BY QUOTING SOME VATICAN DOCUMENTS – BUT VATICAN AND ALL CHRISTIAN WORLD REJECT MOHAMMAAD AND THE QURAN. YES THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD WHETHER YOU CALL GOD GOD OR IN ANY OTHER LANGUAGES – BUT THERE IS ONE TRUE GOD AND HE IS A LIVING GOD WHO IS A REVEALER AND REVEALS EVERYDAY TO MANKIND, UNLIKE ANYOTHER GOD.
See how the last verse concludes only peple of intellegence pay heed – DEAR JESUS SAID SUCH ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PROUD BCOZ THEY THEIR INTELLENCE IS HUMAN THINKING – THERE IS NOTHING SPIRITUAL EVEN IN THE VERSES YOU QUOTE.
MUSLIMS THEMSELVES HAVE CONFIRMED THAT QURAN FESTERS HATRED TOWARDS PEOPLE OF GOD (BECAUSE ALLAH HIMSELF CURSE UNBELIEVERS), INSTEAD OF FOSTERING LOVE.
VILE IS THE DEVIL AND VILE ARE HIS WAYS.
VJ,
Peace to you!
AW, you come across as an intelligent and respectful person. But I wonder what you mean when you say, “Peace to you?” I say I wonder, because we know that the same words can mean different things to different people, depending on what they have been taught. You have been taught that the Koran is the final revelation from God to man, and you have been taught that the God you serve is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, but we know that when we know that we may be talking about different gods, and even different people, even when we use the same words. Could it be that the peace that Jesus came to give is different from the peace of Islam? Jesus told his followers, “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid” (John 14:27). The truth is, Christians believe the Jesus is the Prince of peace, but Muslims do not believe this, at least not the ones I have spoken to. We read in Isaiah 9:9, ” For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Orthodox Christianity has understood that this is a prophecy concerning the Messiah. Indeed, it is written, ” Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord” (Luke 2:11). In John 14:9-10, we read, ” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.” Muslims say they believe Jesus is the Messiah, but mean something different with this word too. The truth is, the message of the prophet of Islam is contrary to the message of Jesus. May the Peace of Christ be with you.
Sorry, I meant to write Isaiah 9:6.
Praise the Lord.
AW, it was not prudent of you to refer to Catholic belief in quoting vatican about the word allah, you go thru what you have written above and you will find that it was also not prudent to refer to christians and jew and their scriptures everytime and also you kept refering to the people in general as well INORDER TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR SOCALLED PROPHET AND YOUR SOCALLED SCRIPTURES.
(this is in total contrast WITH WHAT THE MALAYSIANS HAVE DONE TO CHRISTIAN CHURCHES, CHRISTIAN PEOPLE) .
You and carol as well for that matter never stood by your own ground.
yes how not prudent it was because you accuse christians of not worshiping One God, but you will not hestiate to quote them FOR YOUR SUBSTANTIATION OF ISALM AND QURAN. Yes when you so ardently reject them who believe that God is one and by you quoting goes to prove that the vatican in fact believe that god is one. Thanks.
You have always justified ISLAM AND ALLAH AND QURAN AND HADITS by quoting others, this is an evident proving how Islam cannot justify from writtings of its own (NEVER), yes you prove that islam is IN WANT OF SUPPORT from the external because it is hollow and empty inside NOTHING FOR SOUL SEARCHING.
Truth is in Jesus and Jesus said TRUTH WILL SET MANKIND FREE. So dear did he mean to clarify that in truth he is MAN?? WELL, THERE IS MORE TRUTH IN HIM, IN HIS WORDS, IN HIS WORKS AND THE ONE WHO RECOGNIZES JESUS KNOW GOD THE WAY WE SHOULD KNOW GOD AS THE ONLY ONE LIVING GOD OF ALL.
I will answer this one about what you have quoted from 41:37.
See again you are preaching one thing and doing another. Without any offence to your intellect,
God has left proofs NIGHT & DAY that you are NOT WORSHIPING GOD AT ALL, forget being ONE TRUE GOD. Look PRACTICE FIRST and then preach. A total contradiction to YOUR SUPPOSED TO BE WORD OF ALLAH.
MUSLIMS bow to kaaba and then you fall prostrate towards it. WHAT BETTER PROOF THAT GOD HAS LEFT FOR MANKIND TO DISCERN FALSEHOOD?
You are also made to go and visit this kaaba once in your life time and CIRCLE round it. WHAT BETTER PROOF MANKIND NEED TO PROVE WHAT GOD TOLD MOSES ABOUT A PROPHET WHO WILL PRESUME TO COME IN HIS NAME. Also as a muslim they throw stones AT THE DEVIL right there.
Do you need more proof? Muslims who speak to me say that they must utter the word ALLAH and no other word. Muslims all over the world and you will see the next generation how this word ALLAH will be creating havoc (already started in malaysia), I remind you THE PROPHET WHO WILL COME IN THE NAME OF OTHER GOD WILL BE (IS ALREADY) PUT TO DEATH.
I can also quote for you contradictions in quran, but whats the use? it does not justice to THE LIVING GOD.
[Quran 2:164.] Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.
VJ,
Are you arguing about why Muslims bow down put their faces on the ground in their prayers?
[Matthew 26:39] “Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
The simple answer is that, not Muhammad, but God (Allah) has commanded all believers to pray as such. God had revealed the best form of prayer for Mankind, through examples of His numerous messengers, has perfected it on the children of Adam stage by stage.
Through His last messenger, Muhammad, and His last message, the Quran, he has shown the final criterion of right and wrong, even in form of a prayer.
Aw
i knew that you would quote jesus because all the muslims have said the same thing.
Look, you do damage to yourself more and more, because you are justifying your practices, like how you justified the moon on mosques by saything they are symbols and that too without knowing the true facts. YOU ARE JUSTIFYING EVERY THING THAT YOU DO and DENOUNCING CHRIST AND CHRISTIANS.
Why do you want to quote the bible to justify? bcause quran does not hold the truth at all. The bible does not requrie any book to reveal God, because God has revealed himself thru his very words.
Jesus did not face Kaaba. So it is a ridiculous claim. Let it be known to you that I too prostrate. But god does not want me to prostrate to the kaaba. So if you proclaim yourself a muslim then do justice to the quran and islam and the mullas. Your FALSE JUSTIFICATION STRENGTHENS ME.
continued,
Or are you arguing about why they bow down to the direction of Kaaba?
You state that Muslims do not worshiping God at all.
An evidence against your “evidence”:
The the word “Hajj” itself means “proof” or “evidence”…
The gathering of millions of people in devotion to God in from of the house of prayer that Abraham and Ishmael built for worshiping God.
A place where millions of devotees to God gather; people of all colors, from the whitest of the white to the darkest of the dark, like one people, one nation, they put aside their colors, languages and cultures and are one people in from of God. Rich or poor dressed alike in white, eat often from the same plate and share the same drink… Did you ever hear about these from your sources VJ? DID YOU?
They circle – counter clockwise – the Kaaba 7 times and jog 7 times between the hills of Safa and Marwah, in recognition of the Hagar when back and forth between the hills 7 times in search of water for her infant child Ishmael,
But you know VJ, its not just about the gathering of people there are other proofs to this,
Have you ever thought about how closely this circling resebles the circles of the galaxies in the universes or the circle of electrons around an atom, look at the galaxy picture the right of my name.
Do you know that all the planets in our solar system revolve around the sun COUNTER-clockwise. and the earth counter-counter clock wise around itself.
Did you know that almost all galaxies are in counter-clock wise motion around themselves and around the universe.
think about that, VJ, let alone, 1400 years during Muhammad’s time, but people didnt know this until 50 years ago.
In reality most Muslims are replicating the universe, without knowing it.
Think about that.
But the Quran answers you best:
The Quran answers you best
Continued.
The Quran answers you best
2:125. Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma’il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
2:126. And remember Abraham said: “My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in God and the Last Day.” He said: “(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!”
2:127. And remember Abraham and Isma’il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): “Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
2:128. “Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
2:129. “Our Lord! send amongst them an Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise.”
2:131. Behold! his Lord said to him: “Bow (thy will to Me):” He said: “I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe.”
2:132. And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; “Oh my sons! God hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam.”
THE REST:
2:133. Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship Thy God and the God of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma’il and Isaac,- the one (True) God. To Him we bow (in Islam).”
2:134. That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!
2:135. They say: “Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).” Say thou: “Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with God.”
2:136. Say ye: “We believe in God , and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam).”
2:137. So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in division; but God will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
2:138. (Our religion is) the Baptism of God. And who can baptize better than God. And it is He Whom we worship.
2:139. Say: Will ye dispute with us about God, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that We are sincere (in our faith) in Him?
2:140. Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma’il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than God. Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from God. but God is not unmindful of what ye do!
VJ
YOUR ANSWER, I need not say more, only if you are wise:
2:142. The fools among the people will say: “What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?” Say: To God belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
2:143. Thus, have We made of you a community justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla (Kaaba) to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
2:144. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla (Kaaba) that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is God unmindful of what they do.
2:145. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other’s Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.
2:146. The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.
2:147. The Truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt.
Thanks aw for linking and comparing to the stars the constellation the moon, etc. – THIS FURTHER GOES TO PROVE THAT YOURS IS TRUELY FROM THE PAGAN RELIGION. THANKS AGAIN.
The pagan arabs used to circle around it (YOU DONT KNOW THE PRE-ISLAMIC HISTORY) similar to the hindus circleing around a tree. The pagan wore white clothes similar to the hindus wearing white cloth. SORRY DEAR, EVERY LIKES OF THE PAGANISM.
Further – There is nothing that benefits your soul these are the exact ritual of the pagans.
Neither was the kaaba the place where abraham and isaac went up that hill (YOU EVEN ARE BRAINWASHED TO BELIEVE IT WAS ISHMAEL). You are fallen into a trap which ofcourse you cannot come out because of the FALSEHOOD.
Kaaba is a metearoid from heaven this is what muslims believe sent by god. Well if you believe that abraham built it (WHICH IS FALSE INDEED) but wait YOU ARE BOWING, PROSTRATING TO THIS BLACK STONE and NOT TO GOD MR. AW.
So, what do you call a place where animal is killed – A SLAUGHTER PLACE. SO YOU ARE BOWING TO A SLAUGHTER PLACE WHEN AN ANIMAL WAS KILLED BY DEAR.
PRAISE THE LORD FOR MY GOD IS A TRUE AND LIVING GOD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.
See how you justify your bowing and prostrating to kaaba a black stone to Jesus prostrating. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?? These are the works of the devil dear, Jesus as a man prayed to his father in heaven?
See the audacity, you are comparing your praying to jesus and even you quoted jesus who said MY FATHER. So AW, God is the father of Jesus (because jesus said I have come from above, i and my father are one, my father sent me) WELL YOU REJECT THAT. But MUSLIMS WILL QUOTED THE PRESENT BIBLE UNTIL THEIR DIEING DAY. So, your claim HELPS ME GROW STRONGER IN MY BELIEF OF THE ONE TRUE LIVING GOD.
EXACTLY, LIKE A SHEEP LEAD TO THE SLAUGHTER HOUSE THE SHEARER HAS MADE HIS DAY.
VJ,
See how you hid the truth, the reason I referenced Matthew 26:39, was to show you that even Jesus prayed the same way, as the topic of our discussion was “praying”.
Muslims do not believe that Jesus was the “son of God”, we believe His words has been changed by people before us and through the translation you read as “father” or “son”.
Read here if you are truthful:
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/558/
The original Aramaic words had totally different meaning than what you and others conveniently translate as such.
Though changed, Muslims believe that there still are enough evidence in the Bible for the Christians and Jews to arrive at certainty to the absolute unity of God and understand the Truth.
Regarding kaaba,
Yes, as a matter of fact, I was fully aware of that Pilgrimage was a pre-Islamic ritual, Mecca has such a blessing from God that even the Pagans that had occupied after Abraham and before Muhammad, enjoyed peace and security of it, and when they would take the pilgrimage (Not the Hajj as Muslims do today and the time Muhammad did), they would put aside their arms and feuds.
Baca is also very clearly referenced in the bible as you read in Psalm 84:1-6
Further more, Muslims do NOT believe that “Kaaba is a metearoid from heaven”, they believe that one “black stone” USED in the Kaaba is a meteor from heaven….
And indeed scientist have examined pieces of this stone and concluded that the material contained within it is not from our solar system, something that could only be verified through today’s technology.
VJ,
I am guessing that you, too, have not read the Quran from beginning to the end, and are leaving a lot to your perception of what the Quran says, what the people you talk to say and/or your perception of what Islam is.
I believe that you, similar to many other westerns, have unanswered questions about Islam, but instead of asking them humbly, purely and simply, being influenced by today’s politics, you have assumed much and left the conclusion of right and wrong or true and false to your perception.
I do not blame you! Unfortunately, many, like yourself, have been misled about Islam.
The only people that will find the Truth on any issue, including the purpose of life, God and His prophets are the group of people who humbly research, read, use their common sense, rational and are JUST.
You see VJ, being just is a very important ingredient to understanding the Truth. If we are not just, we constantly see others and ourselves in the realm of our perception, which we create for ourselves.
You have to apply the same standards to others as you apply to yourself. If you are just, you will see that the Jews and Christians have their own ways of prayers, so do the Muslims.
The Jews bow in front of the wailing wall.
The Christians kneel and some bow in front of the cross or people like the Pope.
The momentary prayers that all of us, including Muslims, do at some point or other in our daily lives, in our cars, in our lonely walks and in just looking at the universe, the skies and the nature around us created by the Almighty, in our thoughts celebrating His praises, is different that the obligatory forms of prayers have their origins and reasons for coming into a form.
The reason for facing the Kaaba is very clear in the Quran:
2:142. The fools among the people will say: “What hath turned them from the Qibla (direction of worship or Kaaba) to which they were USED?” Say: To God belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
2:143. Thus, have We made of you a community justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla (Kaaba) to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
Aw
Time and again you are comparing your new religion with other religions.
Muslims cannot stand by their quran because they do not hold the truth.
What is the standared you are talking about. You think with intellect of yours and therefore you as a human are thinking as per your intellect. But God is more than intellect and if at all anyone has intellect he thinks he can boast of it, but our boasting is for the lord because wisdom is a gift from ourliving god himself who is TODAY REVEALING HIMSELF UNLIKE ANY OTHER FALSE GODS.
Hey you not only pray to the metearoid and the slaughter place and the idol box BUT YOU BOW AND PROSTRATE. Your standard is proofread by your ACTIONS. What is it??
So, dont fool the people. Initially you said that i donot know islamic history and TODAY YOU HAVE COME TO ACCEPT THE HISTORICAL TRUTH OF IDOLS, and at the same time you have DISREGARDED the historical truth written by and witnessed by 100′s of people and today 1000′s are witnessing the SAME TRUTH, by people of ALL WALKS OF LIFE.
Further my dear aw, MUSLIMS FACED JERUSALEM, but according to the whims and fancies of your socalled prophet CHANGED TO KAABA. (So, Abraham NEVER went there – BUT MOHAMMAD SUCEEDED TO KEEP YOU UNDER HIS FIST). So, did the metearoid move from jerusalmen to kaaba?? THERE ARE ABROGATIONS IN THE QURAN, and everytime your prphet wanted something HE MADE UP REVELATIONS. He wanted WOMEN and he LUSTED women and even THIS ALLAH has ALLOWED HIM THUS HE TOLD THE POOR NOMADS OF THOSE DAYS AND THEY BELIEVED.
Do you PLAY with OUR LIVING GOD.
The prophet who came (presuming) preaching the name of GOD and took the name of OTHER GOD, Dear AW and the MUSLIMS WORLD – OUR LIVING GOD HAS PUT HIM TO DEATH AND HE IS ALREADY IN HELL FIRE AND HE IS DOING HIS BEST TO DRAG THE MILLIONS WITH HIM.
TRUTH IS WITH GOD AND NOT WITH MOHAHMMAD OR THE QURAN OR ISLAM.
open your eyes
At last you agreed that there were idols in it is it not? it did house idols and therefore the conception of abraham going there is FALSE.
Furthermore, your prophet kisses it – MUSLIMS(DO NOT KNOW THIS), BUT MUSLIMS TELL THE WHOLE WORLD THAT THIS ITSELF IS IDOL WORSHIP WHAT OTHERS DO, but THE FACTS ARE THERE IN THE QURAN THAT YOUR PROPHET KISSED IT.
So KISSING AN IDOL HOUSE, KISSING A SLAUGHTER PLACE, KISSING A METEOROID IS OKAY IN ISLAM?? BECAUSE YOUR ALLAH HAS TOLD YOU SO???
ALSO YOUR ALLAH HAS TOLD YOU TO BOW & PROSTRATE TO THE METEORID,
BOW & PROSTRATE TO THE IDOL HOUSE,
BOW AND PROSTRATE TO THE SLAUGHTER PLACE ?
AND YOU ARE JUSTIFYING THAT ALL THIS IS PROVING TO THE WORLD THAT YOU ARE NOT IDOL WORSHIPPERS,
YOU ARE NOT BOWING TO AND PROSTRATING TO A SLAUGHTER PLACE AND NOW A METEOROID ?
EVEN YOUR SO CALLED PROPHET HAS KISSED THIS IDOL HOUSE AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF THESE SAME FOLLOWERS OF YOUR PROPHET INCLUDING YOURSELF CLAIMS THAT YOU BOW AND WORSHIP ONLY TO ALLAH.
YES THAT IS RIGHT AW AND THE MUSLIM WORLD YOU ARE BOWING ONLY TO ALLAH AND NOT TO THE LIVING GOD THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH. SO VERY TRUE.
YES YOU CAN JUSTIFY YOU THOUGHTS WORDS AND DEED, AND YOU WILL DO EVERYTHING TO DENOUNCE OTHERS WHO PROCLAIM THE TRUE LIVING GOD WHO REVEALED HIMSELF TO MANKIND.
BECAUSE GOD REVEALED TO MANKIND I KNOW OF MY RESURRECTION, I HAVE ASSURANCE OF THE WRITTEN WORD AND HIS REVEALTION TO MANKIND AND I KNOW THAT GOD FORGIVES SINNERS, I KNOW THAT GOD WILL JUDGE MANKIND, – THIS IS THE ASSURANCE AND PROOF THAT MANKIND IS GIVEN BY THE LIVING GOD – THIS IS WHAT MAKES THE SPIRITUAL REALMS. (UNLIKE THE HUMAN REALMS). AND FINALLY, I KNOW THAT GOD WILL FIGHT THE DEVIL(DEVIL IS A SPIRIT-NO MAN CAN FIGHT THE DEVIL) .
Muhammad had no assurance of salvation. ARE THESE UNTRUE?
‘The Prophet said, ”’By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me”’ (vol. 5, no. 266).
DEAR AW,
WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE HADITS??? MY MUSLIM BROTHERS!!!! HAVE NOT READ HADIT AT ALL HARDLY BY EVEN 0.01% OF MUSLIMS –
OUR LIVING GOD WILL REVEAL THE TRUTH AT THE PROPER TIME AND OUR GOD HAS ALLOWED THE PRESUMPTIOUS PROPHET THUS FAR AND THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THE TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED BY OUR VERY LIVING GOD WHO WILL JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD.
HOW DO YOU RECITE THE QURAN???
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296
Narrated ‘Aisha:
The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur’an while I was in menses. ALLAH HO AKBAR.
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 473
Narrated Sahl bin Sad Al-Saidi:
Allah’s Apostle said, “A place in Paradise equal to the size of a lash is better than the whole world and whatever is in it.”
a student took a mobile into her school in saudi arabia and she will be given 90lashes – ALLAH HO ABKBAR.
girl schools in pakistan and afghanistan are bombed – ALLAH HO AKBAR
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 539
Narrated Abu Talha:
The Prophet said, “Angels do not enter a house which has either a dog or a picture in it.”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 535
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: The Prophet said, “A woman entered the (Hell) Fire because of a cat which she had tied, neither giving it food nor setting it free to eat from the vermin of the earth.”
DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO IS SUPERSTITOUS – MOHAMMAD YOUR PROPHET & PAGANS OF TODAY WHO HOLD SCRIPTURES SUCH AS ABOVE WHICH ARE NOT READ BY THEIR VERY OWN.
You boast with your intellect about ALLAH being GOD, but THE LIVING GOD HAS KEPT PROOFS OF THE VERY WORDS OF THE PROPHET THAT YOU ARE NOT ONLY TREATING HIM AS A MESSGNER, BUT AS A PROPHET OF GOD.
MOREOVER – MUSLIMS TREAT HIM MORE THAN ALLAH, BECAUSE ALLAH IS NOT THE TRUE LIVING GOD WHO HAS CREATED THIS EARTH AND HEAVEN.
THE LIVING GOD HAS REVEALED HIMSELF TO MAN AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME, AND IS STILL REVEALING TO MAN OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE.
Again you quote what you want from the bible and then you quote a present bible without proof of your usual FALSE CLAIM, accusing that the people have changed.
It goes to show that allah is truely not god. PRAISE THE LORD.
He tells you to read from the torah and the injeel and then you said people have changed. Now if people have changed it after the quran was printed then ALLAH’S INSTRUCTIONS TO READ THE INJEEL ARE TOTALLY UNWARANTTED FOR. ALLAH DO NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS SAYING, BECAUSE HE IS NOT GOD.
If the injeel is changed and you have no proof it is changed (but just ACCUSTAIONS as the JEWS HAD ACCUSED JESUS FOR MAKING HIMSELF AS GOD) is not anything new.
FOR YOUR INFORMATION, BEFORE QURAN WAS EVER PRINTED THERE WERE SEVERAL VERSIONS OF IT AND YOUR CHALIF UMAR BURNT THE MANY OTHER VERSIONS OF THE QURAN AND KEPT ONLY WHAT HE WANTED.
MOHAMMAD NEVER READ THE QURAN, NOBODY KNEW WHAT WAS WRITTEN WERE TRULY WORDS OF MOHAMMAD SO THERE IS NO PROOF THAT WHAT WAS PRINTED BY UMAR IS THE WORDS OF MOHAMMAD, MOREOVER HE IS A FALSE PROPHET WHO PRESUMED TO COME IN THE NAME OF GOD AND PRACHED OTHER GOD CALLED ‘ALLAH’ WHICH NAME IS CONTESTED BY THE PAGANS OF TODAY.
Diago,
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword” The bible – Matthew 10:34
Did Jesus mean that? I don’t think so Diago.
I am guessing that you have not read the Quran, and are only picking and choosing out of context.
Diago, read the Quran from the beginning to the end.
Only then, by God’s will, the Truth will come to you.
Peace
Diago,
I don’t want to offend you, but you seem or bring out many points of arguments without even having a proper understanding or knowledge of what it is you are referring to.
You say that “Islam cannot prove that Allah is God.”
But you do not seem to know that, as the Quran tells us; to God “Belongs all the beautiful names”.
IN FACT all of such names are encompassed in “Allah” in Arabic (as Muhammad – pbuh – spoke) in “Elah” in Aramaic (As Jesus -pbuh – spoke) and “Elloh” in Hebrew (As Moses – pbuh – spoke). Moreover, “My God” in all three are pronounced EXACTLY the same “Elahi” (eelahee) – Elah meaning God and “i” meaning my
All three are Semitic languages and all three very closely refer to the one God with three main letters of L.A.H
The conformity between them all shows why He says in the Quran “I am your creator… I am Allah, other than me there’s no god,” and Gabriel passes God’s messages to Muhammad (pbuh) ” to Him belongs all the beautiful names”
2:163. And your Allah is One Allah. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
That being said, you say “But history proves that Allah is the moon God. It seems you are quite ignorant of pre-islamic history.”
As far as I understood, we were talking about two scriptures.
If you didn’t grasp or agree on anything from all these posts back and for with Carol and others, you should have at least understood that She, much like millions of Muslims around the world worships ONE God – The creator of Heaven and Earth and all that is within them.
I advice you not to confuse Islam with “some” Muslims or some “Muslims in history”. Again we are talking about the proof from the two scripture and the Truth.
If you want to refer to sources like history, I can give you examples throughout history, in which the Christians committed far worst acts of crime, carried far worse sins and blasphemies against God.
The Quran and The Bible are at discussion here.
Peace and blessings of God on all
Carol,
Everything that God created will perish. Isn’t it???
So, if jesus is created he too must perish and the word of god confirms it, otherwise God is a lier. Only God is unperishable. That is why the truth lies in the bible – He was truly man and truly god that is why he ascended into heaven from whence he came and will come back to judge the living and the dead.
Well only God forgives our sins and thus only God will Judge us. If jesus is only man WHO WILL JUDGE JESUS?? Scriptures are clear as crystal about JESUS BEING HOLY SINLESS AND PURE – ONLY GOD IS.
That is why every knee shall bow to the name of JESUS(meaning GOD SAVES), (carol, you are looking at him as a HUMAN?? as a MAN??, but GOD SAID
and remember carol, HE IS HONORED IN THIS WORLD AND THE NEXT.
When we all go to Paradise dear Carol, who will be honored in the next world ONLY GOD. Are we to honor MAN???
Can you see the contradictions going AGAINST GOD? He is created, a human, yet DID NOT DIE? but went to heaven WITH HIS FLESH AND BLOOD HUMAN BODY and will come back as well WITH HIS HUMAN BODY FLESH AND BLOOD, and will JUDGE the world, and will FIGHT THE DEVIL and yet for ISLAM he is only man – JUST BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN IS IT NOT?? Carol, I am using the same yard stick that you are using while giving your arguments.
19:17. She placed a screen between herself and them. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and HE APPEARED BEFORE HER AS A MAN IN ALL RESPECTS.
An angel became MAN IN ALL RESPECTS, yet she knew THAT THE MAN WAS AN ANGEL??? . Lets conceive this in our mind?? A man IN ALL RESPECT, telling Mary she would conceive. Mary recognized a man as an angel, well this is logical for you it seems, yes indeed.
HADITHS Sahih Bukhari
(29) ‘Abd Allah b. Sarjis reported: The Prophet (may peace be upon him) prohibited to urinate in a hole.
Qatadah (a narrator) was asked about the reason for the disapproval of urinating in a hole. He replied: It is said that these (holes) are the habitats of the jinn.
Sunan Abu Dawud Volume 1 Chapter 14 Number 29.
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 494
Narrated Ibn Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said, “When the (upper) edge of the sun appears (in the morning), don’t perform a prayer till the sun appears in full, and when the lower edge of the sun sets, don’t perform a prayer till it sets completely. And you should not seek to pray at sunrise or sunset for the sun rises between two sides of the head of the devil (or Satan).”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 508
Narrated ‘Aisha:
The Prophet said, “While the angels talk amidst the clouds about things that are going to happen on earth, the devils hear a word of what they say and pour it in the ears of a soothsayer as one pours something in a bottle, and they add one hundred lies to that (one word).”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 513
Narrated Abu Qatada:
The Prophet said, “A good dream is from Allah, and a bad or evil dream is from Satan; so if anyone of you has a bad dream of which he gets afraid, he should spit on his left side and should seek Refuge with Allah from its evil, for then it will not harm him.”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 522
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “When you hear the crowing of cocks, ask for Allah’s Blessings for (their crowing indicates that) they have seen an angel. And when you hear the braying of donkeys, seek Refuge with Allah from Satan for (their braying indicates) that they have seen a Satan.”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 524
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and changed into rats, for if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it.” I told this to Ka’b who asked me, “Did you hear it from the Prophet ?” I said, “Yes.” Ka’b asked me the same question several times.; I said to Ka’b. “Do I read the Torah? (i.e. I tell you this from the Prophet.)”
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 531
Narrated ‘Aisha:
The Prophet said, “Five kinds of animals are mischief-doers and can be killed even in the Sanctuary: They are the rat the scorpion, the kite, the crow and the rabid dog.”
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.”
PLS. EXPLAIN
Diago, the last thing you said is that “God forgives sin and there is nothing new that Islam brought for mankind
Praise God.. someone finally understands. That is the message of Islam in a nut shell!! God did not suddenly introduce a new religion to the world.
The message given to Muhammad and which he gave to mankind was the same message given by all the Prophets.. that yes indeed God does forgive sin.. and as David said in the Psalms.. what God requires is a repentant and contrite heart not burnt offerings and sacrifice.
Christianity from Acts onwards in the Bible, is the ONLY religion that says it worships God alone to introduce something new .. that God is not sufficient to forgive and deal with man’s sin.. that somehow He needed a man to die to appease and forgive sin and bring justice.
The Old Testament and Islam teaches that God IS sufficient. That He is All Merciful and All Forgiving. That mankind will stand before Him in judgement.. but that He is the Most Just. . We stand before Him with Hope in His forgiveness and love for Him and in knowledge of His love for us. but this is balanced by fear of the One who is the Creator of the Universe. and even the writer to the Hebrews warns Christians that it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God..
Islam calls people back to worship that God in complete submission of will as well as action.. Jesus said “Thy Kingdom come Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven”.. this is Islam .. Christians say this prayer without even considering it’s implications most of the time. ..
If the angels in heaven are submitting their will totally to God as it’s taught in Christianity.. can you do anything less? Romans 12:1-2 is worth another read.
Just to add another proof from the bible:
Luke 18:18-19
A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
Archy
Speak up what’s on your mind about Luke 18:18-19!
I am sure you dont mean that Jesus is not good. Or do you?? I remind you that ONLY GOD IS HOLY AND PURE.
No one can smear Jesus because scripture is very clear that Jesus is holy and pure and born WITHOUT SIN because he is NOT CREATED FROM DUST – UNLIKE ADAM and LIKE ADAM WE TOO RETURN TO DUST BECAUSE WE ALL ARE BORN OF DUST, THAT IS WHY WE CALL THEM OUR FIRST PARENTS.
JUST LIKE MOHAMMAD HE RETURNED TO DUST Bcoz THRU FLESH HE SINNED, UNLIKE JESUS WHO WAS HUMAN YET DIVINE BORN PURE WITHOUT SIN DID NOT RETURN TO DUST, BUT WHENCE HE CAME.
Remember NO ONE (NO MAN) IS GOOD. And any man who says he is good is a lier in front of god. Jesus though holy and sinless was humbler yet.
So jesus is inquiring from this man with a question as to WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD. (Can you read the mind of jesus??) Jesus did not say I AM NOT GOOD.
So DOWN THRU THE AGES the ONLY GOOD ONE was Jesus and from this indeed we can understand WHO JESUS IS.
Remember jesus said I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. Archy what are you trying to prove – just because quran contradicted who jesus is you believe what is written there, but the fact of the matter cannot be overlooked. Yes jesus is HUMAN and so like Adam jesus too died – FLESH IS OF NO VAIL.
So, how are you looking at Jesus when you read Bible (or are you quoting to attack jesus??) and how do you look at jesus who Jesus is when you quote scriptures???
Archy, you are looking at the TRUE WORD OF GOD thru a human perspective and our human perspective is LIMITED it is boxed and to understand God who is A SPIRIT we need to have the spirit of god in us which is given to those who ask for it.
(NOT BOOK VALUE) . You read to compare, but I read to find the truth and ONLY JESUS HOLDS THE TRUTH
Carol,
You have caught the bull by its tail.
You have conveniently not answered my very first question and what followed.
I reiterate that every human being dies and so did JESUS died and all the more because you profess that jesus is only human.
So you Carol and the quran which you consider as scripture is not the word of god and do not hold the truth about Jesus.
Jesus was TRUELY human and TRUELY divine.
Yes, Jesus is the only human being who forgave sins of men proving who he is and confirming his divinity and not just his mere humanity as twisted by quran.
Yes I reiterate only God forgives sins and Jesus (meaning GOD SAVES to prove who he wasand is forgave sins).
Carol, you cannot know god by your human eyes and your human perceptions, one has to have god’s eyes and only then you will understand gods perception.
Somewhere in your post you mentioned Jesus teachs to love – That’s because God is Love, whereas Quran has nothing to talk about the love of god, yes carol it is because of God’s love that he revealed himself and became man was prophesised by the prophets of old.
Speaking about forgivness of sins – Carol, you are truly blinded by satan and I am surprised how according to your biodata that you were a christian missionay and just as you perceive of one called khaled having missunderstood the allah whom you are facinated about, similarly you were truly a lost missionary from the very word go. A misssionay with no mission indeed. It is no surprise for me carol about your person and mentality and your capacity of intellect.
Praise God, That is why the forerunner to jesus, john when he saw jesus coming into the waters of jordan said “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). This sums up the JESUS THE HUMAN AND JESUS THE DIVINE.
You also do not seem to know the Old Testament.
You have lost the concept of the fall of adam and eve disobedience of god, loos
Diago,
Your words are full of ignorance about the Quran and your tone is full of arrogance accusation, labeling and Judgment. I see how much you follow Jesus’ example by action.
May God guides you out of arrogance into light and to the Truth.
Deigo
I didn’t comment on your statement about Jesus because you obviously don’t know Islam.
Islam believes in the virgin birth too.. so we don’t need to answer the question you asked. … infact it’s Christian groups and sects who need to ask your question
Muslims believe as you have been shown by another poster than Jesus was born without human intervention. Therefore we don’t need him to have a human father. .. So I don’t need to answer that point
Secondly, you have ignored the verses I raised and continued with the Christian rhetoric about God needing a sacrifice and have ignored the verses I showed you that state that God didn’t need a sacrifice to forgive Davids sin..
And by the way.. look at the scape goat. there was no killing of a goat for the forgiveness of sins.. instead.. the sins of Israel were placed on the scape goat and the goat sent into the wilderness a beautiful picture of what is written in Psalm 103:12. ” as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.”
Christians have taught that man’s sin led him to be banished from the Garden of Eden.. but Genesis 2 says differently.. Genesis 1 says that man was created to have dominon over all the earth (which Islam teaches) and in verse 19 and 20 God said ” 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Mah was created to look after the earth and man was given plants the entire world over to eat.. .. this was before the fall. ..
and yes I know Genesis 3 contains the so called protoevangelium.. but we can discuss that next time
Diago,
Lets forget this way of argument.
I put to you a challenge that the Quran proposes (as shown bellow): let’s all earnestly pray together that the curse of God be on those who lie about Jesus (pbuh) in this life and in the next. Let God decided between us and you.
3:59. The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was.
3:60. The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.
3:61. If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: “Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!”
I myself pray sincerely and earnestly that the CURSE of God the Almighty – the creator of the heavens and earth and all that is contained within them – be on the section of people who lie about Jesus (pbuh), in this life and in the next. Amen!
Your Turn my friend!
Carol,
You do not know what you are writing.
It is evident that what God proposed man disposed. Paradise was proposed by God and man disposed it and thus man was cast away from Paradise and you have put God in a nutshell because the SIN of adam and DISOBEDIENCE to God is peanuts for Islam and SIN bears no consequences. So you confirm there is no difference with Islam and other religions.
Exactly, what islam did with the coming of mohmmad was to continue the WAYS & LIFE of the old, and that is why we see sin very prominent throughout his life, a life of a so called prophet of your god and we see today that muslims are content with the kind of life he lived, rejecting SINLESS Jesus, without comprehension. Furthermore, we see – The spoils of war mentioned in that very book, we find him marrying a 6yr old, further marrying his own son’s wife, allowing women to be taken to bed and be beaten, marrying 16odd wives + concubines & slaves and restricting others to 4wives, word of god spread on horseback with men and sword and killing jews as well. unlike a man of god, unlike what god proposed. Never understood the repurcussions of disobedience to God by adam and eve and casting away from paradise.
Yes, Islam lives by the laws because men of old asked for it and you still wish to be bound by laws and you reject the spirit of god which is LOVE, which is rejected by ISLAM. Yes God is merciful but the very people of islam who brag are unmerciful, tooth for a tooth and eye for an eye – THIS IS PROFESSED BY MUSLIMS TODAY, THIS IS THE MESSAGE FROM ALLAH TO MUSLIMS AS IS EVIDENT.
By the way, Jesus himself speaks of God as his father and Jesus taught us that God is our Father too, which bears no significance to you coz u have understood him not. So the prayer line you quoted without reference to God as our Father bears no significance to Islam, but what you are doing is choosing what you want , and this is hallmark of Islam.
Carol, – ABOUT ANGLES
You have not read the quran to its fullest.
I ask you to read from the quran following verses:
Allah said: And behold, We said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam” and they bowed down, EXCEPT Iblis (SATAN). He refused and was too arrogant, and a disbeliever.” [2:34…” (Quran 2:30-34)
MUSLIM ANGELS BOWED DOWN TO ADAM AT THE BEHEST OF YOUR ALLAH.
Lord, forgive her for she know not what she is doing and saying.
Yes carol,
Jesus appears to muslims TODAY LIKE NEVER BEFORE as he did to DOUBTING THOMAS (remember the one being CLOSE TO JESUS) how about peter – just as close as you were Carol, (they say familiarity breeds discontent) , not forgetting the apostles themselves, the 100′s of people, paul, etc. after jesus died. YES THEY KNEW THE HUMAN SIDE OF JESUS.
Human mind is so easily deceived by the viles of the devil (just like adam whom God himself created and yet DISOBEYED HIS OWN GOD and you are no exception to hesitate in rejecting WITNESSESS just as the PEOPLE OF OLD did Mathew warns that the very elect will be deceived and how much does the cap suit??
just one example:
http://www.freecdtracts.com/testimony/dini.htm
We also have witnesses who have experienced Jesus while doing their Haj.
IS ANYTHING HARD FOR GOD??
GOD IS MY WITNESS AND GOD IS MY PROOF – MY GOD NEVER CHALLANGES WE HIS CREATION, UNLIKE THE GOD OF QURAN WHO CHALLANGES HIS CREATURE.
Diago
Since your knowledge of Islam comes from such tracts as you are encouraging me to read. may I suggest you read Islamic history from the Muslim and not anti muslim perspective.. maybe then you will begin to understand why thousands of Christians around the world are becoming Muslims.. myself amongst them and why Christianity is a a religion that changes with the generations
When I was a teenager in church we believed the bible to be the inerrant word of God.. now adays you will find most churches including the one I used to attend believe it “contains the word of God” as originally given.
When I was a teenager in church women wore hats to church and modest clothes.. A woman was never a preacher.. now adays women are the pastors of Churches, not just the preachers, they lead services in mini skirts and with belly buttons showing.. and the certainly modest nice dress befitting of worship is a thing of the past in many churches.
Christianity changes with the generation.. and if you understand your own faith and it’s history I suspect you would not be so keen to say things about Islam that you are only learning from comic strips.
Islam is a beautiful religion that presents worship as God presented it to Moses and Abraham and the children of Israel .. When people tried to worship Jesus.. He said “Worship the Lord your God and HIm only shall you serve”. He never accepted worship.. and to use Thomas as the example, negates the fact he would not let mary worship him in the garden after the resurrection account.
He also would not allow the men on the road to emmaeus worship him according to the Luke account.
Diago, There is only one God.. and one Creator of the Heavens and the Earth.. and Him only shall you serve.
That is the message of Jesus and that is the God I worship.
I you are sincere about really wanting to know what Islam teaches.. start here
http://www.islamfortoday.com/athar16.htm
and hear for yourself what Islam teaches.
Diago,
With all respect, when you are ready to listen and try to teach what you do not know.. and explain what you do not understand.. I will again engage in discussions with you
You have spoken pages and pages of notes based on your own interpretation of the Christian and Islamic Scriptures. You are doing what for many years as a missionary to Musilms I did.
I have started you on a course of learning true Islam.. and you have chosen to ignore my posts and keep posting your own thoughts (because that is all they are) on Islam
Before I became a Muslim, I listened to those who said they were ex muslims. Now as a Muslim, I know they NEVER knew their faith which is why they left it.
If you are truly sincere about worshipping God .. you will stop trying to convince yourself of things that are based on an everchanging religious system that evolved even during my own 30 years within the evangelical church.
You are not talking to someone who is a seeking Muslim, uncertain of their own faith. You are talking to a Muslimah (female Muslim) who lived for years as an evangelical practicing Christian Missionary and had her eyes opened.. and found the truth.
When you are ready are to understand yourself.. and see God in a way you have never seen Him before outside of the box you have placed Him, .. we can continue discussing..
In the meantime, read what we have said to you already of Islam and seek His guidance to show you the truth.. just as I did
and May He guide you to the perfected faith.. ameen!!
Carol
With all due respect to you as well and allah (now you will think i am sarcastic, but i am not, coz muslims i have met do not like to say god but only allah). Just bcoz according to you, you FEEL & THINK with your INTELLECT that you are guided to the truth and just bcoz you were an ex missionary does not necessarily qualify anyone to have found the truth.
TRUTH IS WITH GOD Carol and who will reveal the TRUTH at the end of the day JESUS(God saves). Remember, jesus said ‘’My Kingdom is not of this world’’. So, Truth is only with Jesus, just as God revealed the TRUTH to mankind 2000yrs ago. The fact that your god allah has said that trinity is god jesus and mary confirms neither is allah god nor is the quran the word of god. WHAT GOD HAS REVEALED, GOD HAS REVEALED, whether you like it or not and whether you accept it or not.
I totally disagree with your statement : “”"Now as a Muslim, I know they NEVER knew their faith which is why they left it.”"”" My dear Carol, you may be a preacher, must have been a missionary, it does not necessitate that you are now fully geared with the TRUTH.
Even an ex muslim scholars, lawyer,etc. (they too can say the same to you), who were ardent muslims, there are muslims who have been on haj, etc. etc. THERE ARE MUSLIMS WHO ‘NEVER’ READ THE BIBLE – but they were inspired by a VOICE to read the Bible – Sorry carol GOD HIMSELF GUIDED THEM TO THE TRUTH. Yes during the prophets of old a voice spoke to them GOD SPOKE TO THEM. After his revelation to mankind and bcoz man twisted the word of god, this same voice is speaking ever since, not only to the followers of jesus – GOD IS NOT A LIER or a DECIPTER.
Carol
YOU ARE NOT GUIDED BY THE TRUE LIVING GOD as these ex-muslims, you HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED GOD, you HAVE NOT HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. Well, What about people from other religions – THEY TOO ARE GUIDED BY THAT VOICE OF GOD and just as Saul heard that voice from heaven Acts 9:1-9 – “Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.” It was not the christian people(body) whom saul was persecuting, but the spirit of god that liveth in them. Carol IT WAS CHRIST HIMSELF THAT SAUL WAS PERSECUTING. How??
I remind you of the lords prayer, you shied away to say these words “”"OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN HOLY BE YOUR NAME”" when you quoted it earlier WHY?? As I know from Islam, God is not a Father to You, – but you dont hestiate to choose what you wish this is what i had meant, but your muslim friends did not understand.
Also you said not all who say lord lord are guaranteed paradise, Carol complete the sentence “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of MY FATHER who is in heaven. So, Jesus speaks of a father who is his and he is in heaven, STOP AND DO NOT SWALLOW THE WORDS OF GOD AND DO NOT TWIST SCRIPTURES.
Now recall the verse from quran I quoted where mohammad himself said I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ALLAH WILL DO TO ME AND THEN HE ALSO SAID TO YOU when talking to his friends. If Mohammad did not know what his allah would do to him, how can you. YES INDEED A PROPHET DOUBTED ABOUT HIS OWN SALVATION.
Dear Friend Carol,
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
God has spoken thus.
1) So according to God ‘A PROPHET’ will be presumably speaking in the name of GOD. (HE IS NOT GOD’S PROPHET).
2) ‘A PROPHET’ speaks that which GOD has not commanded him to say. (HE IS NOT GOD’S PROPHET).
3) ‘A PROPHET’ speaks in the name of OTHER GODS. (HE IS NOT GOD’S PROPHET).
4) God himself said that such ‘A PROPHET’ must be put to death. (BECAUSE HE IS NOT A PROPHET GOD HIMSELF WILL PUT THIS PRESUMPTIOUS PROPHET TO DEATH).
god puts such a person(EVEN IF YOU CALL HIM A PROPHET) to death,
it means that god will send HIS SOUL to HELL. (God is not interested in the death of flesh, god is concerned about our souls).
For god death of our soul means one having DIED IN SIN and having died in sin, such a person is DAMNED TO HELL –
Carol, EVEN IF SOMEONE CALLS HIMSELF A PROPHET, OR A MESSENGER OF GOD OR TAKES GODS NAME – HE IS A FALSE PROPHET INDEED AND ITS BITTER FOR YOU TO SWALLOW.
SO GOD IS LOUD AND CLEAR ABOUT THIS PROPHET (A PRESUMPTIOUS ONE) IS A FALSE PROPHET INDEED AND THE BIBLE BEING THE WORD OF GOD SPEAK THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH AND THE BIBLE HOLDS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE FALSE PROPHET.
JESUS SAID IN : MATHEW 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you(LOVE AT ITS HIGHEST PEAK), for this SUMS UP the LAW and the PROPHETS.
15″Watch out for FALSE PROPHETS. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them.
Dear AofW
So do I take it you read what I have penned above and read the hadiths I quoted as being truth and nothing but the truth coming right from your prophet. I remind you that you will not find such things coming from any prophets of the bible because they are messengers of God and not messengers from the devil .
I also remind you Jesus(meaning God Saves) was the only one born sinless holy and pure and if I am to take him as one who is SINLESS HOLY AND PURE (only God has these qualities), so every thought word and deed of jesus bears spiritual significance (His Birth, Life, Suffering, Death, Transfiguration, Resurrection and Ascension bears spiritual significance) so every word of jesus is GODS WORDS (now compare it with mohammads – THE HADITS IS THE LIVING PROOFS WHICH HAS BEEN PRESERVED FOR MANKIND TO FATHOM THE KIND OF WORDS THAT CAME FROM HIS MOUTH, BUT I ALSO STATE THAT THE MUSLIMS I HAVE MET HAVE NEVER READ ANY HADITS AND DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY CONTAIN. (The time will come when muslims will read the hadits and THE TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED).
So me and you humans as we are need more to understand god and GOD IS SPIRIT so only the spirit world can understand god and that is why god has revealed mankind this gift of his HOLY SPIRIT.
Now coming to what you have quoted, yes dear AofW – What have you done? Did you not pick and choose the quote of jesus? – read Mathew 10: from 26 to 50 as you do not know JESUS as yet.
Verse 28 says Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.(Who are those killers?) Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (ONE refers to the devil).
AofW, Jesus is referring to the KILLERS, if any one follows him they will have to bear the sword that would come upon them. You have accepted jesus as a prophet, so jesus bring sword or peace for you??
contd…..
But if you acclaim jesus – Just as the doubting Thomas said, try acclaiming jesus as Christ, the son of the living god.(Mathew 16:16) and then you will know what jesus meant.
So, with the coming of Jesus into your home, will also come a sword upon you, because YOU ACCEPTED JESUS (not because you accepted jesus as a human being, but as LORD AND MASTER of your life.)
So, Jesus knew that HIS FOLLOWERS WILL BE PERSECUTED my dear. This is exactly what happened after Jesus died, this is the prophesy which is fulfilled and IS BEING FULFILLED TODAY BY MUSLIMS IN PARICULAR.
AofW, what will happen if you accept jesus? WILL NOT A SWORD COME UPON YOUR HEAD. Your father, your mother, your brother, your muslims community WILL BE AFTER YOUR HEAD, and what about MULLAHS they issue DEATH WARRANT – THE FATWAS. Yes, look at some of your flags, starting with saudi’s flag and can you tell me what that sword represent??
You have quoted the verse just to attack WHOM? Jesus?? Or deceive his followers?
Quran NEVER speaks about the Apostles chosen by Jesus and so this is exactly where quran is not the word of god because you do not hold the truth.
AofW There are proofs of every apostle whom Jesus chose were persecuted and THEY WERE NOT AFRAID OF THOSE WHO KILLED THEIR BODIES.
Today, who will brought sword upon you? YOUR VERY OWN FLESH AND BLOOD. Will Jesus bring sword upon you???
So, jesus is warning with his coming into your homes also comes the SWORD and dear AofW – 700yrs later who brought the SWORD.
Finally, with the birth of jesus the angels proclaimed PEACE ON EARTH, but jesus knew exactly the Devil bcame restless and countered acted with the sword killing the body of Christ not HIS SPIRIT.
contd…..
and that body of christ are his followers, WE HIS LIVING BODY and if the body is killed WHAT MATTERS, but HIS SPIRIT LIVITH IN ME.
Yes AofW
Thanks for confirming that the nomads were truly what they were and dear today THE DECENDENTS OF THE NOMADS AND THEIR FOLLOWING ARE NO BETTER.
Why will you not defend even if you will find faults, even if sinful, even if done wrong? IT IS CERTAINLY DIFFICULT TO DEPART FROM THAT WHAT IS WRONG & SINFUL.
AND IT IS ALL THE MORE DIFFICULT TO STAND BY THE JUST AND HOLY ONE OF GOD.
You are conveniently forgeting about the DEVIL URINATING, PARADISE AND HELL QUARELLING,
Quran sura Qaf 50:30 – Can you imaginie MUSLIM ALLAH WILL SAY TO THE HELL-FIRE, HAVE YOU BEEN FILLED? ARE THERE SOME MORE? a contract between THE DEVIL AND ALLAH ??
i do not wish to post more here, but well you do confirm that your allah has told him this and he is a prophet BY YOUR STANDARD and certainly not as PER THE WILL OF THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, MOSES, ETC.
You give a blind eye and ear to what is happening in the muslim world today and i will just give one example to your very first comment about girl child,
today those same girl child are treated no better, they are alive but yet burried!!!!!
they are hidden so that no one should take them expect the muslims
that is why he married 16odd, but restricted 4for you
that is why he allowed himself to marry a 6yr old
that is why he allowed himself to marry his sons wife
that is why he allowed you to take your wives to bed and beat them
that is why they have to bring 4 witnessess for crimes committed by men
that is why they do not get the same share in the family
that is why you are allowed honor killings
that is why you are permitted to kill her if she marrys a christians,
that is why there are wet-nurses in paradise
that is why you are told THERE ARE MORE WOMEN IN HELL than in heaven.
Very true and YOU HAVE RIGHTLY SAID SO – Praise the Lord – there is nothing similar because SUCH IS NOT COMING FROM THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, MOSES, ETC.
“Love you enemies” said Jesus (pbuh), and I see no love here Diago, are we even an “enemy”?
Dear Diago (please read to the end)
Your views and arguments have now changed from religious to political and social attacks, just as Carol implied you are now judging and attacking Islam and Muslims without having sufficient knowledge thereof – I believe Jesus’ message and his example was to the contrary of your reactionary comments.
The fact is, there are numerous answers for the questions and the ignorant attacks, which you have made towards Islam, however, you don’t seem to have the patience nor have you shown the logic, reason or adequate inclination towards disposing them in your posts.
Your posts are similar to an argument with an adolescent, where he lashes out vulgar attacks one after another to justify his position while poking his ears closes with both hands and showing no tendency to lend an ear for an answer.
I will leave you with one answer since you seem to mention His glorious name in ridicule: Allah
To Him belongs all the beautiful names that you can utter; all of such names are encompassed
in “Allah” in Arabic – as Muhammad (pbuh) spoke, in “Elah” in Aramaic – As Jesus (pbuh) spoke
as well as in Hebrew “Eloh” – As Moses spoke – (FYI. Yahweh – means “The Lord” not “God the creator”)
Eloh, Elah and Alah in are special words in Semitic languages of Hebrew (Moses), Aramaic (Jesus) and Arabic (Muahammad). They are unique since they can neither take the form of male or female nor plurality. This is not the case with God; see “gods”, “goddess”, and “goddesses”.
The conformity between how Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbut) called “God”, shows that they were refereeing to the same God. In fact they “My God” is pronounced exactly the same in all three languages, “Elahi” – pronounced “eelaahi”. It consists of “Elah” meaning God and “i” meaning “My”.
The Quran teaches us God’s most beautiful names, that He is most compassionate, most merciful, powerful beyond bounds, He is all-knowing, all-wise, ever-lasting, exalted in might, the knower of all things both secret and open, the sovereign, the Holy One, the guardian of faith, He is the preserver of safety, the Irresistible, the sources of peace and perfection, He is Allah, than whom there is NO other god, the beneficent the supreme, He begets non nor is He begotten, He is above all the things some associate with Him.
May Allah bring you out of pride into light and may He guides us all – Amen!
The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. “The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to ALLAH. Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: “Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born. Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was CHIEF of the Kaaba in Mecca.
“In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity…
History establishes beyond the SHADOW OF A DOUBT that even the PAGAN ARABS BEFORE MUHAMMAD TIME, knew the CHIEF GOD BY THE NAME OF ALLAH…ilah is used for ANY GOD and Al-ilah (contracted to Allah, i.e, THE GOD), was the name of the SUPREME.
Among the Arabs this term denoted the CHIEF GOD of three hundred and sixty idols…As final evidence, we have the fact that centuries BEFORE Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, the temple at Mecca, was called Beit Allah, the House of God WHICH HOUSED THOSE IDOLS.
Among the Arabs, long BEFORE THE EMERGENCE OF ISLAM worshippers of a supreme god known as Allah, and the Koran (13:17; 29:61; 31:24 [These show that the Pagan Arab and Muhammad worshipped the same Deity]) LEAVES LITTLE DOUBT that Meccans…recognized the Allah was creator and provider”.
Muhammad found the Meccans believing in a supreme god whom they called Allah…with Allah however they associated minor deities [called] the daughters of Allah. The first article of the Muslim creed, therefore ‘La-ilaha illa-Llahu-means only as addresses by him to the Meccans ‘There exist no god except the one whom you ALREADY CALLED ALLAH”.
“Historians confirm that Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. “…of the 360 idols set up in the Kaaba, the MOST IMPORTANT WAS HUBAL, THE GOD OF THE MOON…IT WAS SET UP IN THE KAABA, and became the PRINCIPAL IDOL OF THE MECCANS. “The pre-Mohammedan Arabic god HUBAL HAD AS HIS TITLE ALLAHU meaning ‘THE GOD’…As the PATRON OF THE KAABA AT MECCA, ALREADY SUPREME he was MAINTAINED IN MOHAMMEDAN THEOLOGY AS THE ONE GOD.
Dear AofW
My dear you dont know the meaning of LOVE.
I can see the love that is being poured by a section of people towards theirs enemies all over the world and the world watchth.
Dear Diago,
Thanks for all the historical facts, even though, I much like most Muslims knew them since the young ages. BUT, you still cannot grasp the fact that to Muslims Allah is the creator of Heavens and the earth, as the Eloah of Moses and the Elah of Jesus were.
You say that Allah is “moon god” yet we read in the Quran tha:t “To Him belongs the sun, and the MOON, the heavens and the earth and ALL THAT IS CONTAINED IN THEM”
Is that not what Mose and Jesus called “Eloah” and “Elah”.
Did NOT the other ancient people call their idols God by the same names?
Did not the pagan people of Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Phalstites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.. living in todays Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Palestine, call their god if gods “Eloah and Elah???
5:82. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
5:83. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: “Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.
5:84. “What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?”
5:85. And for this their prayer hath Allah (already) rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.
5:86. But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,- they shall be companions of Hell-fire.
Diago,
As for you political and social remarks, I think first of all you are lost in the recent history, secondly you don’t seem to be able to differentiate between the ones who are causing the real mischief in the world.
Which countries are killing millions of people around the world Diago?
Are they Muslim War planes, tanks and missiles coming your way or going from your country? THINK ABOUT THAT! – Top 10 Missile production comes from “Christian” countries Diago. No?
http://top10stop.com/politics/which-countries-produce-the-most-arms-and-military-equipment-top-10-list
You might want to come back say, just as some others do:
“well they don’t do it in the name of God or Allah” –
That is because my friend Diago, the people doing the bombings, DO NOT believe in God; they are not oppressed, The last thing that’s left for them is NOT their religion… and they are exactly the same people who are deceiving Diago.
they are killing millions of people around the world as they have in WWI and WWII and times before that.
Dear Diago,
You may also be ignorant about historical events, so here’s just a few historical lesson for you:
The crusaders who massacred unarmed Muslims and Jews men, women and children in the name of God were devoted Christians.
“Jesus himself requires it of you (i.e. crusaders)” – Pope Urban II.
“If the Pope wills to know, let him be told that our horses rode in their blood up their knees” –
The Spanish Inquisitors who tortured and murdered non-Christians were committed and strict Christians.
Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he “followed meticulously all Christian teachings…”
The armies of Charlemagne who slaughtered tens of thousands pagan Anglo Saxons were fundamentalist Christians.
The “white” soldiers who brought about genocide of the Native Americans and the slavery of the black people in north and South American and Africa were Christians often accompanied with religious Missionaries.
A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.
The Nazis who slaughtered millions of civilians during WWII were Christians.
Roman Catholic priest and many churches were involved Rwanda genocide of 1994, in which up to a million Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed.
“The priests must be made to account for their actions.” – Pope John Paul II
The slaughter and raping of thousands of Muslims during the Bosnian war were orthodox Christians.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11799888/Christian-Bloodshed
Dearest Diago,
Here’s my last post here, unless you want to learn about Islam, one question at a time and stop spewing all this nonesese here:
La elaaha illa Allah – means “There’s no god, except the glorious one, unseen God, the most compassionate, the most merciful unseen God of Abraham, Moses Jesus and the rest of His prophets”
Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. Mark 7:9-10 (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21)
Jesus says that most people will go to hell. Matthew 7:13-14
Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It’ll be just like that when he returns. Matthew24:37
God will come when people least expect him and then he’ll “cut them asunder.” And “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 24:50-51
John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned “with fire unquenchable.” Luke 3:17
For a complete list of the “LOVE” preached in the bible go here Dearest Diago:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html
Mercy of the One God of Jesus and Muhammad be upon you.
Take care!
For a complete list of the “LOVE” preached in the bible go here Dearest Diago:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html
Mercy of the One God of Jesus and Muhammad be upon you.
Take care!
I guess it’s much easier to call someone a false prophet than to check out their claims.
Muhammad called people in idolatry back to their Creator.. to worship Him alone.
Israel had been told for years to do this.. for generations. Christians believe that Israel through Abraham was blessed to be a blessing to the world.. yet time and time again they apostatized and listened to the false prophets who called them to the worship of idols.. Even Miriam and Aaron fell into that trip after they saw the miracle of the Red Sea.. and the escape from Egypt.. they couldn’t resist giving up the worship of the true God to worship a graven image.
Yes. God warns against false Prophets.. but since the entire Old Testament is a call to Israel and the surrounding nations to leave their idolatry and worship God.. ask yourself.. what is Christianity doing that is anything different from what God warned Israel against over thousands of years?
“Choose you this day whom you will serve.. as for me and my house.. we will serve the Lord”
Let me say firstly, I have nothing against you or the muslim people in general.
I notice that you have no answers to the many questions raised.
I will go to your point about ‘graven images’. Time and again it is proved that muslims very act of worship bowing prostrating to the kaaba, circle around it, throw stones at the devil etc. SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS and yet you will restrain yourself and seem content, because you are now at the justification end.
God does not come in different packages if the people of the book are to worship him. Does this mean that the A Creator God (of Mohammad) want mankind to bow in prayer only towards the kaaba? This creator God is pleased with animal sacrifice?? Carol – I see that you love to quote from books. God is not bound in books. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
God is certainly a revealer, BECAUSE GOD IS NOT DEAD BUT HE IS ALIVE, my God is a living God.
Thank you for bringing up Aaron. This is it.
You said it, How certain it is that people get entrapped, Isn’t it?
Were the jews at the time of jesus worshiping idols?
Did the jews reject jesus because jesus preached against idol worship?
DON’T THE JEWS WORSHIP THE CREATOR? you love to go back to the old testament and live according to the old testament times as well.
Certainly mohammad and his very own ancestors were worshiping the moon god whom they believed was their creator of heaven and earth, and he succeeded in discarding others 360odd idols, saving his. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT MOHAMMAD? Muslims say : Allahu Akbar (Allah is the GREATEST), yes mohammad did succeed in calling people to the Creator-moon god that’s why ONLY ALLAH IS THE GREATEST of gods for the muslims, whereas there is no GOD greater than MY GOD.
sorry had to continue this way:
And No, certainly not, sorry my friend, we would never know to call someone a false prophet, how could people know?? And this is exactly what has happened a man acclaimed himself to be a messenger, came preaching in the name of other god, (We would NEVER have known if God of Moses did not say so, and we are told this prophet is already in hell fire as per the dictates of God).
So, moreover, wouldn’t then it be easier to get entrapped with someone who claims himself to be a messenger, WHO CAME IN THE NAME OF GOD ? and IT WAS CERTAINLY SOME OTHER GOD. HOW COULD WE GUESS?? Isn’t is easier to get entrapped ??? A man claimed to be prophet and even claimed to be the words from God?? WHO COULD THIS BE?? than to understand from the scriptures already handed down to mankind.
Lastly, The Hadits that have already been quoted here and I have read more of the hadits contains filth and such is coming from a man who claims he is a messenger of god??
How easy it is to entrap innocent lives and to blind them from the truth??
We are warned TO BEWARE OF FALSEHOOD, in the like manner how the Devil over powered man and today THE DEVIL IS GOD FOR MAN just as he became God for Adam and Eve. The hadits which are spoken words of mohammad indicates that the inspirations were more about the devil than about god and moreover chapters in quran are even titled to such as these cow, cattle, booty, thunder, bees, rocky tracts, cave, spider, etc. How easy to be deceited – We will know the tree by its fruits.
Does this mean the Creator God (of Mohammad) want mankind to bow in prayer only towards the kaaba? U & MUSLIMS SAY U BOW N WORSHIP ONLY TO ONE GOD. THIS IS NOTHING NEW THE JEWS DOWN THE AGES HAVE ALSO BEEN WORSHIPING ONLY ONE GOD. WORDS from BOOKS do no justice (But I remind you WHAT GOD SAID; a prophet who PRESUMES to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say).
Preaching WHO DOES NOT PREACH? But their actions deceive them. This is the tact of the devil. SO YOU DO WORSHIP THE ONE GOD, IS IT NOT?? YET THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD PROSTRATES TO THE KAABA – (Remember that THE PROPHET WHO TAKES THE NAME OF OTHER GOD WILL BE PUT TO DEATH.
Furthermore, every muslim do animal sacrifice. DO NOT PREACH EMPTY PREACHING.
i gather that you guys are drop-outs, just like what we see during the time of jesus, in fact the root is again adam and eve they too are drop outs from paradise, do not eat the fruit was a hard saying and brought upon themselves and mankind SIN & DEATH. IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO LISTEN TO THE WORD OF GOD, IT WAS A HARD SAYING FROM GOD.
I see you are justifying everything what you SAY & DO and how the devil makes it EASY to follow the FALSEHOOD OF MEN.
WE ARE TOLD many of his disciples walked no more with him, just as adam did not walk the walk with god in paradise.
Continued,
It wasn’t until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city’s existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty.
For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people’s minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.
Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.”
Read the article here:
http://islam.about.com/od/history/a/crescent_moon.htm
DEAREST Diago,
Some verses of the holy Quran for you in hope that you read without arrogance:
Quran 2:6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether you warn them or whether you warn them not; they will not believe.
Quran 2:8. Of the people there are some who say: “We believe in Allah and the Last Day;” but they do not (really) believe.
Quran 2:9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
Quran 2:11. When it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “Why, we only Want to make peace!”
Quran 2:12. Surely, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
Quran 2:13. When it is said to them: “Believe as the others believe:” They say: “Shall we believe as the fools believe?” Nay, surely they are the fools, but they know not.
ps. Please bring one argument and one question at a time; try to understand the Quran first before anything else.
Peace
Aw for your information : SINCE YOU DO NOT KNOW FACTS:
“…the Kabah was in fact built as a shrine for the MOON-GOD”
“At the time of Muhammad, the Kaaba was officially dedicated to the GOD HUBAL.
PLS. CHECK THIS OUT: The RELIGION OF MOHAMMADS GRANDFATHER was the RELIGION OF HUBAL.
At Mohammed’s birth, Mohammed’s grandfather, who was the KEEPER OF THE KAABA, did this in front of HUBAL: “After his [Mohammed's] birth his mother sent to tell his grandfather Abd al-Muttalib that she gave birth to a boy…It is alleged that Abd al-Muttalib took him before (the idol) HUBAL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE KAABA,where he stood and PRAYED TO ALLAH, thanking him for his gift”
In the Koran we read about the Christian King of Abyssina who wanted to take over the Kaaba, and make it Christian. Look at what Muhammad says in the Koran: “Have you not considered how Allah dealt with the army of the elephant? Did he not confound their stratagem and send against them flocks of birds which pelted them with clay stones…” (Surah 105).
This happened in the year of his birth, and it was still fresh in the minds of the Meccans. Also his grandfather at the time witnessed it first hand, and taught Muhammad this story as a boy. “Abd al-Muttalib offered prayer to the MOON GOD [Hubal] to preserve the Kaaba…which housed 360 pagan gods inside kaaba and worshiped by the pagan and you have flatly rejected saying that these are untrue. But history is NOT ON YOUR SIDE. There is clear proof.
“Islam owes many of its most superstitious details to old ARABIAN PAGANISM especially in the rites and rituals of the pilgrimage to Mecca (see suras 22:33; 5:1-4; 22:36-37)…the superstitions rituals connected with animals,the jinn’s [Genies] and old folk tales.
NOTHING BENEFITS SOULS TO REACH HEAVEN, BECAUSE ISLAM IS FLESH AND ALL THAT MATTERS TO ISLAM IS FLESH MATTERS AND NOTHING OF OUR SPIRIT.
AW – YOU ARE TRULY A PAGAN WORSHIPING A PAGAN GOD.
UNLIKE THE TRUE LIVING GOD
You see how all you have quoted me is from before the birth of Muhammad (pbuh) or his infancy?
Yet again and again you are pumped with arrogance and cannot see the truth?
You quote idles within kaaba before Muhammad’s prophethood, but fail to mention or even question why did Muhammad after coming back to mecca with ten thousand of his followers from exodus (see Deuteronomy 33:1-2 for another proof), destroyed all of them with his own hand, and proclaimed the name of the unseen God, the creator of heaven and earth to whom belongs the MOON and the Sun and all that is in between.
[Quran, 41:37] “Among His (God) proofs are the night and the day, and the sun and the MOON. Do not prostrate before the sun, nor the MOON; you shall fall prostrate before the GOD who created them, if you truly worship Him alone.”
VJ, we shall indeed see the Truth in the presence of our Lord, IN FLESH, and He will judge between us all about all that we arugue today, on a Day about which there’s no doubt. On that day there’s no turning away from the Truth…. Your eyes and your head will certainly be fixed in His direction and you WILL see it with your eyes VJ… on that day there’s no turning back.
[Quran 6:30.] If thou couldst but see when they are confronted with their Lord! He will say: “Is not this the truth?” They will say: “Yea, by our Lord!” He will say: “Taste ye then the penalty, because ye rejected Faith.”
Peace and forgiveness of God, the Almighty, be with you VJ and all of us.
End of my posts.
AW:
Now that you are at the end of your posts, I am not sure if you are reading this, but either way is fine. I am not expecting a reply. I would like to echo what someone else has said. If you believe the Word of God (the 66 books of the Holy Bible) has been changed, it could not have been before the time of your prophet, for he told Muslims to read from it. If he thought it had been corrupted, he would not have given this command without also warning them that it has been corrupted, which he never did. It could not have been corrupted during or after the time of your prophet, because the 66 books of the Holy Bible we have today are based on ancient manuscripts that were written before the time of his birth. This is the only other option: when Muslims discovered that the Koran they use is not in agreement with the books that came before, since they did not want to admit that their book has errors, they decided that the Christians and the Jews must have conspired together and changed their holy books. Again, since the Holy Bible we use today is based on ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts from before the time your book was written, it is evident that the Bible is not wrong, the Koran is. End of story. Does that mean that the Jews and Christians are better people than the Muslims? I don’t think so. Just as it is written in the book of Romans:
No One Is Righteous
9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one.
Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
“All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one” (Romans 3:12).
“The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one” (Psalms 14:2-3; 53:1-3).
“But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished” (Romans 3:21-26).
“What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about–but not before God. What does the Scripture say? ‘Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’ Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered” (Romans 4:1-7).
“The words ‘it was credited to him’ were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness–for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification” (Romans 4:23-25).
Joe,
Since you brought up a point and implied a question, I am obligated to answer. God will hold me to account if I do not answer and let it be known after the Truth has come to me.
But i will not respond to people’s ignorant questions and attacks or ones that have already been answered before and I will only say “peace”, as God has commanded me to do so:
“and the servants of (God) most gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility and when the ignorants address them, they say “peace”" (Quran, 25-63)
Joe with all due respect, I don’t know where and whom from you get the information that Muslims are told to read and obey the Bible – reading the bible and recognizing its inconsistencies and understanding the argument of the Quran only increases ones faith in the message of the Quran it is different from reading and obeying it.
Especially where you get the idea that Muhammad also told Muslims to read the Bible “without also warning them that it has been corrupted”.
In fact we read in the Quran:
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from God,” but it is not from God. It is they who tell a lie against God, and (well) they know it! (Quran, chapter 2:79)
About for the bible (both the old and the new testament), it was changed (and is still being changed); words were added and subtracted, mistranslated from its original text (which we don’t have today) from both before and also after prophet Muhammad.
Even if you look at many hundreds of versions of the Bible today, it should be apparent to any just person that these books are without a doubt different and are in influenced by men. The only book that can claim to be divine is one that is preserved in its original language, for we all know that “meaning is lost in translation”
continued,
continued (c)
Similar to the Old Testament, it is a known fact that although the Gospels, which are attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, all four scriptures have been written by anonymous authors; unknown persons who heard of the disciples who were eyewitnesses of Jesus. This very fact, as well as numerous inconsistencies within the Bible itself, are enough of evidences to Muslims that they have surely been changed from what the apostles originally pass on.
From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them… (Quran, chapter 5:14)
God reminds us in the Quran that if only they (the people of the Book) had stood firmly by what was originally given to them they would have greatly benefited from the mercy of God.
If only they had stood fast by the Law, by the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course, but many of them follow a course that is evil. (Quran, chapter 5:66)
O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger (i.e. Muhammad), revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from God a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,- (Quran, chapter 5:15)
Say: “O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way. (Quran, chapter 5:77)
Peace and blessings of the God, The Almighty, be with you and all of us.
continued (a),
I strongly suggest you read Dr. Maurice Bucaille’s – The Bible, The Quran and Science, you can find it online here: [link no longer working]
It is also proven, from recent discoveries, that during and shortly after the time of Jesus, there have been near or more than 15 to 20 Gospels. Scriptures – amongst Gnostic Christians – that were attributed to men like Thomas, Peter (closes disciple to Christ) and his family like Judas. Gospels that lack any suggestions about the divinity of Jesus and stress on his complete human nature, and some have even no tindication of his crucifixion or death; surprisingly these the arguments, which the Quran stress on.
But they were all destroyed by the Roman emperor, Constantine (you should know well) in the 4th century (312 to be exact) and many people were killed who insisted on holding them, thus we now have only four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
I also strongly recommend reading Bart Ehram’s two main books, “Jesus Interrupted…” and “Misquoting Jesus”
In any event, I have to agree with you that people that solely call themselves Muslims, Jews or Christians cannot claim to be better than each by title alone. Something that Quran stresses on:
[Quran, 49:13.] O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
continued (b),
Joe,
Muslims believe that, as the Quran informs us, the Gospels were indeed word of God, which were passed through Jesus to his disciples.
And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God. (Quran, chapter 5:46)
“And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger (i.e. Jesus). they said, ‘We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to God as Muslims’”. (Quran, chapter 5:111)
However, other than the fact that we do not know who the actual authors of the Gospels were, the Quran directs our attention to an interesting argument, in that the people of the book forgot “a good part” of their scripture.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: “This is from God,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Quran, chapter 2:79)
Again the Quran reminds of the changed state of the Bible:
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from God,” but it is not from God. It is they who tell a lie against God, and (well) they know it! (Quran, chapter 2:79)
But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for God loveth those who are kind. (Quran, chapter 5:13).
continued
Correction its “Bart Ehrman”
AW,
I don’t have the time to respond to all your defenses, but I will admit that I misquoted the Quran. What I was referring to is Yunus (10):94. Muslims who have doubts are told to “ask those who read the scripture” that came before them. al-Maida (5):43, 44, 47, 68/71 confirm that the Torah (OT) and Injil (NT) we indeed in existent during the life time of your prophet. There are also many passages that state that the Words of God cannot be changed, al-Maida (5):48 says that the Quran is the “Gardian” over the scriptures that came before. Either someone changed the words of God and the Quran failed as a gardian, or the message God gave from the beginning of time has been preserved till today. Indeed, the Quran agrees with the Bible here: “The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 4:8). ” All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever. And this is the word that was preached to you” (1 Peter 1:24-25). Obviously you have been well trained in the Quran, and you don’t have any doubts about what you read or have been taught so you don’t need to ask those learned in the scriptures that have come before. For what ever reason you don’t want to ask, I would still argue that the Quran tells Muslims who have doubts to ask those who have the Word of God that came before the Quran.
Please continue to see why I believe the Bible we have today, like the Bible that was in existence in the days of your prophet, was and is revealed by God.
When I say I believe the Bible is the revelation of God to man, I am not referring to everything in every translation of the Bible, or everything that all Jews and Christians say about the Bible. But, we can know that the Bible we have today came from God because Jesus said it did. Jesus confirmed the OT and he promised an authoritative NT through his disciples (see what Jesus said about the OT: Matthew 22:43; Matthew 26:54; Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; Luke 16:31; Matthew 5:17-18; Luke 24:27; Matthew 12:40; Matthew 19:2-5; Matthew 22:29; John 3:12; John 17:17; John 10:35).
Jesus also promised that the words he was teaching would be remembered and understood, and that additional truths would be given to the apostles so that the church could be established (see John 14:25-26; John 16:13). The birthday of the church (Acts 2:1) began the apostolic era during which time the apostles were the agents of the complete and final revelation of Jesus Christ until about A.D. 100 when the last apostle died. During this time, Jesus Christ continued “to do and teach” through them (Acts 1:1). Those NT writers who were not apostles used the apostolic message that was “confirmed to us by those who heard” (Hebrews 2:3). Paul was not one of the original twelve, but he was a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ and his writings were even equated with Scripture by Peter (2 Peter 3:15-16). With the exception of the book of Hebrews, there is a definite link between the writer and the apostles who gave them information. Ultimately, we can be certain that the Jesus Christ, who was God in the flesh, always spoke the truth, said the OT was the Word of God, said the NT would be written by His apostles and prophets as the sole authorized agents for His message. Based on the consistency with ancient manuscripts, and the authority of Jesus Christ Himself, we can be certain that our entire Bible is proven to be from God. Continue reading for “Bible Difficulties.”
As for the apparent contradictions and other Bible difficulties, I only have time now to say that that is what they are, “apparent” contradictions and “Bible difficulties.” I admit that there are real problems with the Bible, but we also have real answers to any and all difficult passages.
I will not take the time to answer all your objections about the Bible, but if you are honestly interested, volumes have been written and every question has been answered already, you just need to ask those who are more leaned than I. Like I said, I know we have reason to believe that all 66 books of the Bible we have today is the Word of God, and we can find satisfactory answers to any and all arguments of the critics of the Bible.
As we say in criminal law, the burden of proof lies with the accusers. The Bible should be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and after all the accusations of skeptics, atheists, and critics, the Bible has stood the test of time. The Bible came first, but Muslims today say that it is corrupted. If you are in doubt, just ask, seek and knock (Matthew 7:7-11) and you will find that the things I say are true.
In closing, the Bible is not only a historically reliable book, there is also great historical, archeological, and scientific evidence to confirm the reliability of the Bible. But I believe it because I believe Jesus was God in the flesh; Jesus said that the OT was the Word of God; He promised the N.T., and I believe God has revealed Himself to me and speaks to me today through those very same Words that are the same yesterday, today and forever!
Joe,
10:94. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee (O Muhammad), then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee (O Muhammad): the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
Although, when reading the Quranic verses that are directed to Muhammad, it seems as if God is speaking to the person reading it, however, the verse you quoted is more precisely directed to Muhammad himself.
The above explanation is justified when in other verses God says “if you (the reader or the one whom the verses of the Quran being recited to) have any doubts what We have sent down to Our servant (ie. Muhammad) then ……”
There’s a clear difference, unless you talk about the verses that ask Muhammad to “say”, then it is without a doubt directed to all muslims.
On the contrary to your arugument, the verse you referenced from 10:94 should a clear manifestation and proof to you that he (Muhammad) did not know much about the stories of previous prophets before him. He was asked by the Almighty to go and check His words if, even he the messenger of God, had any doubts about the stories passed on to him through angle Gabriel. It was for him to realize the consistencies between God’s message in the Quran and what was reveal to the prophets before him, and have complete believe that the message is coming from the same source that revealed it to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus and the rest of His prophets.
continued (a)
Joe,
“God’s Word”
Furthermore, God’s Word, should be seen in a complete context of His creation, His plan, the covenant passed from Adam to Muhammad that included around 124000 of His prophets.
The Word of God, means that God’s decision, God’s order, His decree, His will and His one message from age to age, which is always the same, but that its form may differ according to the needs and exigencies of the time.
The Word of God is what He declares and determines to take shape, what he decides to happen, “to be” and “it” has to be “willingly or unwillingly”, it has to come to being and take shape. His word is His will over all that exists.
… If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; (5:48)
It was His decision to entrust the Bible (OT and NT) to mankind, to not forget the “good part of it”, to “not say about the book what is not part of it”.
However, it was His decision to preserve the Quran,
Preservation of God’s message is on the other hand something different. The Quran is the only religious book that it’s “preservation” is promised by God.
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
So in this case the “We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)” in its whole context can been considered “world of God”.
And to this date you cannot find different versions of the Quran from west of Africa to the easternmost of Asia. They are all the same, even to the vowel.
continued (b)
6:7. If We had sent unto thee a written (message) on parchment, so that they could touch it with their hands, the Unbelievers would have been sure to say: “This is nothing but obvious magic!”
34:43. When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, they say, “This is only a man who wishes to hinder you from the (worship) which your fathers practised.” And they say, “This is only a falsehood invented!” and the Unbelievers say of the Truth when it comes to them, “This is nothing but evident magic!”
34:44. But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent apostles to them before thee as Warners.
34:45. And their predecessors rejected (the Truth); these have not received a tenth of what We had granted to those: yet when they rejected My apostles, how (terrible) was My rejection (of them)!
34:46. Say: “I do admonish you on one point: that ye do stand up before Allah,- (It may be) in pairs, or (it may be) singly,- and reflect (within yourselves): your Companion is not possessed: he is no less than a warner to you, in face of a terrible Penalty.”
34:47. Say: “No reward do I ask of you: it is (all) in your interest: my reward is only due from Allah. And He is witness to all things.”
AW
YOU ARE A BOOK WORM WITHOUT THE WISDOM OF GOD.
YOU NEED TO PRACTICE BEFORE YOU PREACH, AND YOU WILL NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE PREACHING FROM A FALSE BOOK FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND THINGS BORROWED FROM PAGANISM,TALMUD,APOCRYPHA,FABLES&LEGENDS.
I HAVE ENCOUNTERED MUSLIMS AND ALL ARE THE SAME – JUST BOOK WORMS, THEY ARE BEST AT QUOTING FROM A LITERATURE BUT DO NOT OPEN EYES TO SEE JUST AS JESUS SAID YOU HAVE EYES BUT DO NOT SEE AND EARS BUT DO NOT HEAR.
U R BRAINWASHED SO MUCH THAT THERE ARE TESTIMONES OF YOUNG MUSLIM TEENAGERS LIKE U WHO ARE TAUGHT A FEW VERSE FROM THE QURAN THAT THEY WILL ATTAIN PARADISE AND THEY GIVE THEIR BLOOD AS RANSOM TO ATTAIN PARADISE. THESE SAME MUSLIM WASH THEIR OUTSIDE OF THE BODY (THE FLESH) GO TO PRAY AND THE VERY NEXT ACT IS TO COMMIT SUICIDE/TERRORISTS IN THE NAME OF THE OTHER GOD AS THEY THINK THAT THEY HAVE BOWED AND WORSHIPED GOD BY FACING THE KAABA WHICH YOU THINK AN ANIMAL WAS KILLED AND MUSLIMS ARE TOLD BY ALLAH TO PROSTRATE BEFORE IT.
F.Y.I. NON OF THE PROPHETS HAVE EVER VISITED THIS KAABA BECAUSE ITS JUST AN ASTEROID / AN IDOL HOUSE WHICH HOUSED 360 IDOLS (CONFIRMED BY YOUR SCRIPTURES) AND TODAY YOU ARE IMITATING THE PAGANS AND NOT JESUS WHO PRAYED TO HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN(JUST THE OPPOSITE).
DO YOUR MID-NIGHT PRAYER FROM TODAY.
HOW IGNORANT ARE YOU?
U R JUSTIFYING YOUR THOUGHT N NOW EVEN YOUR VERY ACTS. MUSLIMS JUSTIFY THE SUICIDE BOMBING, THE HONOR KILLINGS, THE TERRORIST, ETC. MIND YOU ALL IN THE NAME OF YOUR OTHER GOD (AS GOD OF MOSES SAID).
So, you are saying it is okay to pray in front of a wall, a cross, etc.
SEE U R JUST WHITE WASHING WHAT U R DOING BY AGAIN STATING WHAT ‘UNBELIEVER’ (FOR U) ARE DOING. YET U SAY YOU BOW ONLY TO GOD THRU KAABA.
Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said:
“Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it and said, ‘There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.’ ‘Umar added, ‘(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).’” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675)
Narrated Zaid bin Aslam that his father said:
“I saw ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab kissing the Black Stone and he then said, (to it) ‘Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you, (stone) I WOULD NOT HAVE KISSED YOU.’” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 679)
How amusing that Umar basically echoes the words of Sura 21:66! Hence, not only was Muhammad acting inconsistently but he also committed idolatry!
In fact, we just read above what the Quran says that Abraham allegedly told his people regarding their idolatry. Here is it is once again:
He said, `Do you then worship, instead of ALLAH, that which cannot profit you at all, nor harm you? S. 21:66 Sher Ali
In light of this supposed statement form Abraham, how can anyone be expected to believe that this patriarch then went on to place a black stone, which could neither benefit nor harm anyone (in the words of Umar).
Dear AW, Carol, and every other Muslim reading this:
It is admirable to see people of faith who have a love and devotion to God that is sincere, as long as it is peaceful, fine. It is true that the same love and devotion to God and His glory alone should be the mark of every believing Christian, but as we all know, there are many who are not true believers living by faith in God and His revealed will.
Rather than trying to exalt Christianity over Islam and rather than trying to compare the amount of love and devotion of Christians to Muslims, I just want us to consider this one fact. Without the Lamb of God, none of us would have any hope of eternal life in the very presence of God. Let’s not argue what God could do, since He is almighty, let’s listen to what God said and what he requires of us. God said that all have sinned against Him, that sin has a punishment, the punishment for sin is death (physical, spiritual and eternal death which is separation from God in hell), that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, that God will not weigh our sins on a scale to see if we are good enough for “the soul that sins will die,” that the blood of animals made a temporary covering of sin, and that Jesus Christ came from heaven to earth to become the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. On the final day, anyone who’s name is not found written in the Lamb’s book of life will be cast into the lake of fire along with the devil.
Religion is for this life only. What we need to enter into eternal life is to come through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross, where he died once and for all to make atonement for sin and to bring us to God. We agree, God can do anything, but what God did is make ONE way for us to be forgiven and to have eternal life. It is through a relationship with Jesus Christ who is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). Religion cannot save anyone, only Jesus can (Acts 4:12). It is written!
Dear Friend,
Ultimately it is JESUS(which means God saves) who was prophecised by Isaiah(EMANNUEL meaning God With Us) WILL JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD, and how is it that he will judge, and why is it that he will judge is very clear and HOW COME HE WILL JUDGE?
BECAUSE JESUS WAS AND IS THE ONLY WAY THAT GOD CHOOSE TO REDEEM MANKIND FROM SIN AND OPEN THE GATES OF HEAVEN.
Muslims are so confused that many of them do not know that Jesus will Judge, they say Allah will judge.
Most of the muslims are like sheep lead by a shepherd and Jesus called this shephard A HIRED ONE who actually took the name of some god and this god has satisfied(abrogations after abrogations) this prophet, THAT IS WHY HE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HIS GOD WILL DO TO HIM AND TO THE MUSLIMS WORLD.
According to Islam, when jesus comes he will kill SWINES as well.
Where did they get this Knowledge?
Very few Arabs at the time of Mohammad could read or write or know arithmetic’s. Mohammad himself said we are a nation that does not know how to write or to do arithmetics (nahnu ‘omah la takteb wa la tahseb). The Arabs used the local tradesmen, architects and scholars of the conquered countries and learned their skills from them.
It is the Jewish prisoners of war in early Islam that taught the early Muslims how to read and write etc. and in return they received their freedom.
Also, when it came to Greek science, “most of the translators were Christians”. It was the Christians that translated the Greek works of science to the Arabs. These were the great scholars that taught the Arabs about science and philosophy. And during that time, “Christians and Jews continued to make so active a contribution [science].
After the Arabs conquered many territories an Islamic Renaissance began. They absorbed and extended the learning of all the dominions where their sword had been successful. They now learned paper making from the Chinese, mathematics from the Indians, commerce and banking from the Jews, astronomy from the Egyptians, poetry and literature from other parts.
Go to Qur’an, Islam and Science web site for more fallacies from the Muslims about they being the originators of modern science, when in actuality, they borrowed from the Greeks, Romans, Hindu’s and other countries they conquered. The whole Muslim religion and way of life has been plagiarized from other religions and cultures of this world, there is nothing to brag about. If anyone should brag it should be everybody else.
“Mohammed’s inspiration and religious experiences are remarkably similar to those found in some forms of spiritism. – HADITS ANSWERS ALL.
“The belief in angels and demons is said to have been acquired from the PERSIANS (the Koranic word ‘ifrit’ meaning ‘demon’ is of Pahlavi origin).
sorry u made mocery of yrself and yr allah
The number of churches in Malaysia that have been attacked due to the recent ruling on Christians using the term “Allah” for God has risen to nine.
firebombs were thrown at three more churches, while another was splashed with black paint. These are just the latest in the series of attacks on Christian churches in this Southeast Asian country.
Four churches were hit by Molotov cocktails. During that attack, a Pentecostal Church, Metro Tabernacle Church was gutted by fire and the mebers had to move their services. Good Shepherd Lutheran Church reported only minor damage.
The attacks have come as the result of a high court ruling on December 31st overturning a government order that banned non-Muslims from using the word “Allah” in their prayers and literature.
The decision of the court came from a petition by the Catholic Herald that uses the word “Allah” in their Malay-language edition and now allows non-Muslims to use the word “Allah,” which has angered Muslims and extremists from the ruling party.
Last January, the government of Malaysia banned Christians from using the word “Allah,” stating that the use of this Arabic word might offend the sensitivities of Muslims.
As publisher of the Herald, the archbishop was seeking a ruling that the ban was illegal and contended that the word “Allah” was not exclusive. Muslims in Malaysia, however, contend that the word “Allah” belongs to Islam alone.
What peace what allah pls stop being hypocrite u call yrself people of god where is truth
what justification do u have now
aw, this is in total contrast in what u stated from yr point of view
its bcoz islam has no authoritative directives and the reason quran iself is inconsistant in its matter. how do v know see how muslims got fooled about trinity why should someone write about trinity and go out of the way to err by stating falsely what christians believed what trinity is. mohd took the concept of oneness of god from thejew and the devil made him to reject what god revealed through prophets abt the messiah who would comeredeem mankind from the prince of thrs world and to open he gates of heaven which were shut by casting our 1st parents out of heaven thus allowing mankind to show that our resurection is reality, by proof of the resurrection
hi
is it not that allah is interested for man to go to heaven? and if there is any religion then that religion will give me assurane for me and my family to go to heaven after our death.
i have read some of the words that mohammad spoken and it says that mohammad does not know what allah will do to him and to his followers. do i then take it that there is no assurance for all muslims since their own prophet does not know what the god whom he proclaimed told him that? if he was truly a prophet then he would not have spoke like this.
So, my first question is why must i believe in the book called quran that it is gods’s word when the same messenger who brought quran says that he does not know what allah will do to him and to his followers.
MY DEAR FRIEND AW, read below your own post HERE YOU ATTACKED, SO LIKE A DEVIL YOU ALSO QUOTE WHAT YOU WANT TO, IS IT NOT?? YOU ALSO CHOSE FROM BIBLE WHAT YOU WANT AND ALSO SAY THE BIBLE IS CORRUPTED. THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS NOT IN YOU THATS THE REASON FOR YOUR TWO TRACKED MIND AND ONLY THE DEVIL ACTS THIS WAY.
You seem blinded by the devil and YOU CANNOT SEE THE DEVIL.
Dear Diago,
You may also be ignorant about historical events, so here’s just a few historical lesson for you:
The crusaders who massacred unarmed Muslims and Jews men, women and children in the name of God were devoted Christians.
“Jesus himself requires it of you (i.e. crusaders)” – Pope Urban II.
“If the Pope wills to know, let him be told that our horses rode in their blood up their knees” –
The Spanish Inquisitors who tortured and murdered non-Christians were committed and strict Christians.
Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he “followed meticulously all Christian teachings
The armies of Charlemagne who slaughtered tens of thousands pagan Anglo Saxons were fundamentalist Christians.
The “white” soldiers who brought about genocide of the Native Americans and the slavery of the black people in north and South American and Africa were Christians often accompanied with religious Missionaries.Roman Catholic priest and many churches were involved Rwanda genocide of 1994, in which up to a million Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed.
“The priests must be made to account for their actions.” – Pope John Paul II
The slaughter and raping of thousands of Muslims during the Bosnian war were orthodox Christians
The Jews rejected Jesus the foretold Messiah, the Emannual. They are still waiting for a WORLDLY messiah. Messiah was promised to SAVE MANKIND FROM SIN.
The Angels not only announced the birth of the Messiah to Mary but also to Joseph and also announced to the whole world the birth of the Son of the Most High.
When the Messiah came he told the whole world that God is his Father, that he has come from above, god too confirmed it, further more the Messiah confirmed that he would suffer and die and raise exactly as the prophets had also prophesied. The jews on several occasions took stones to stone him and thus they finally succeeded to kill him as prophesised by the prophets because jews reaby his teachings He equated him to God.
Now, the Muslims rejected the prophesy of the old testament prophets ABOUT THE EMANNUEL/THE MESIAH AND PROPHESY ABOUT HIS LIFE (suffering, death and resurrection) AND HIS PURPOSE IN THIS WORLD.
THE DEVIL SUCCEEDED IN TWISTING THE WORD OF GOD.
The muslims DO NOT KNOW WHY GOD SENT THE MESSIAH, the muslims rejected this core teaching of Jesus that God is his Father, that we are children of god and that God is Love, thus the Messiah clearly confirms that those who reject THE MESSIAH CAME IN FLESH, REJECT THE ONE WHO SENT HIM, thus the muslms rejected the one who sent him, his Heavenly Father, therefore QURAN, ISLAM, MOHAMMAD DO NOT HOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD. THE MUSLIMS DO NOT KNOW GOD AS THE MESSIAH THE EMANNUEL HAS REVEALED.
SO THE FALSE PROPHET MENTIONED BY GOD TO MOSES AS FORETOLD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND AS JESUS(THE WORD INCARNATE) ALSO FORETOLD THE NEW TESTATMENT IS SO VERY MUCH STARRING AT OUR FACE AND PEOPLE ARE BLINDED BY THE FALSEHOOD OF THE FALSE PROPHET.
HI
The Jews rejected Jesus the foretold Messiah, the Emannual. They are still waiting for a WORLDLY messiah. Messiah was promised to SAVE MANKIND FROM SIN.
The Angels not only announced the birth of the Messiah to Mary but also to Joseph and also announced to the whole world the birth of the Son of the Most High.
When the Messiah came he told the whole world that God is his Father, that he has come from above, god too confirmed it, further more the Messiah confirmed that he would suffer and die and raise exactly as the prophets had also prophesied. The jews on several occasions took stones to stone him and thus they finally succeeded to kill him as prophesised by the prophets because jews reaby his teachings He equated him to God.
Now, the Muslims rejected the prophesy of the old testament prophets ABOUT THE EMANNUEL/THE MESIAH AND PROPHESY ABOUT HIS LIFE (suffering, death and resurrection) AND HIS PURPOSE IN THIS WORLD.
THE DEVIL SUCCEEDED IN TWISTING THE WORD OF GOD.
The muslims DO NOT KNOW WHY GOD SENT THE MESSIAH, the muslims rejected this core teaching of Jesus that God is his Father, that we are children of god and that God is Love, thus the Messiah clearly confirms that those who reject THE MESSIAH CAME IN FLESH, REJECT THE ONE WHO SENT HIM, thus the muslms rejected the one who sent him, his Heavenly Father, therefore QURAN, ISLAM, MOHAMMAD DO NOT HOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD. THE MUSLIMS DO NOT KNOW GOD AS THE MESSIAH THE EMANNUEL HAS REVEALED.
SO THE FALSE PROPHET MENTIONED BY GOD TO MOSES AS FORETOLD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND AS JESUS(THE WORD INCARNATE) ALSO FORETOLD THE NEW TESTATMENT IS SO VERY MUCH STARRING AT OUR FACE AND PEOPLE ARE BLINDED BY THE FALSEHOOD OF THE FALSE PROPHET.
In the Hadits that I have read there mohammad is addressing to Jesus as The Word of God and The Spirit of God.
praise the lord
Dear AW
In the Hadits that I have read there mohammad is addressing to Jesus as The Word of God and The Spirit of God.
praise the lord
In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
2:83. And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect): Worship none but Allah (God). treat with kindness your parents and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people; be steadfast in prayer; and practise regular charity. Then did ye turn back, except a few among you, and ye backslide (even now).
2:84. And remember We took your covenant (to this effect): Shed no blood amongst you, nor turn out your own people from your homes: and this ye solemnly ratified, and to this ye can bear witness.
2:85. After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah (God) is not unmindful of what ye do.
2:86. These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped.
2:87. We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
2:88. They say, “Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve God.s Word: we need no more).” Nay, Allah.s (God’s) curse is on them for their blasphemy: Little is it they believe.
2:89. And when there comes to them a Book from Allah (God), confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.
2:90. Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah (God) of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith.
91. When it is said to them, “Believe in what Allah (God) Hath sent down, “they say, “We believe in what was sent down to us:” yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: “Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah (God) in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?”
92. There came to you Moses with clear (Signs); yet ye worshipped the calf (Even) after that, and ye did behave wrongfully.
93. And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai): (Saying): “Hold firmly to what We have given you, and hearken (to the Law)”: They said:” We hear, and we disobey:” And they had to drink into their hearts (of the taint) of the calf because of their Faithlessness. Say: “Vile indeed are the behests of your Faith if ye have any faith!”
Peace
AW – It’s sad. All what you know to do is to copy and paste. One needs the wisdom of god to discern the word of god and words from others.
AW dear really I love you and you are just so innocent and you seem to be taken up with what is written in the quran. Dear, See, there are muslims who are reading QURAN, and yet they believe that jesus DIED. (THEY ARE TRUE MUSLIMS – NOT CHRISTIANS).
Everytime, you are cutting and pasteing just like all muslims and even carol – EVERYTHING THAT YOU CUT AND PASTE FROM THE QURAN is an absolute Argumentative discourse. You love arguments it seems and you fathom without wisdom.
Quran is the only book (for you its scriptures) so it’s a scripture which is sent by allah to contradict another scripture coming from the god of the jews and the Christians, not the same god it seems. It is evident that the main purpose of quran is to go against JESUS HIMSELF and against the BASIC TEACHINGS OF JESUS(God is his father, which is repeated in the bible and is ignored by quranic writings) and also to go against the MAIN PURPOSE WHY JESUS-THE MESSIAH, THE PROPHET AND THE KING came into this world.
LET ME ALSO QUOTE THE BIBLE.
John 8:33 Some Jews said, ‘We are Abraham’s descendents and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that WE SHALL BE SET FREE?
John 5:35-50
36″I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
contd…
41″I do not accept praise from men, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, YOU WILL ACCEPT HIM. 44How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God[b]?
45″But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. YOUR ACCUSER IS MOSES, ON WHOM YOUR HOPES ARE SET. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, FOR HE WROTE ABOUT ME. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
AW, WHO RAISED JESUS? GOD HIMSELF. THIS IS THE PROPHEY OF GOD HIMSELF, JUST LIKE HOW JESUS PROPHESISED WHEN HE SAID DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS I WILL RAISE IT UP.
AW – YOU NEED THE WISDOM OF GOD TO DISCERN THE TRUTH.
Dear, those who are born under the laws are treating themselves as slaves, whereas those who are born by the spirit of the lord are redeemed, because god’s love i.e. SPIRIT OF THE LORD in upon me and remember it is the spirit that sets you free and not the law.
Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
contd…
Galatians 4:1 What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 He is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. 4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,a Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.
2:111. And they say: “None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.” Those are their (vain) desires. Say: “Produce your proof if ye are truthful.”
So, dear P.S. produce your proof then about your scripture if you are truthful. Let us see how you justify that the whole of it is from the One God – creator of the universe – Convince me then with convincing evidence that the Bible is not the word of anonymous man who hear from other men, who heard from desiples of Christ, who heard from christ. Show me why emperor Constantine (a former pagan) picked the 4 gospels of you have as the new testament and burnt any other scripture (over 20 other gospels) with man or woman who held them
Produce your proof, please.
2:112. Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
2:113. The Jews say: “The Christians have nothing (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: “The Jews have nothing (To stand) upon.” Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but God will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
2:115. To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading [ever present], all-Knowing.
2:120. Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: “The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance.” Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.
2:135. They say: “Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).” Say thou: “Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with God.”
2:136. Say ye: “We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam).”
2:137. So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in division; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
Dear P.S.
God has given you a choice to make in this wold. So you are free to make your decision, (whether you are “baptised” or not) you shall indeed you see the Truth in the next.
52:31. Say thou: “Await ye!- I too will wait along with you!”
34:51. If thou (O Muhammad) couldst but see when they will quake with terror; but then there will be no escape (for them), and they will be seized from a position (quite) near.
Wait then I shall wait with you!
contd.. But dear brother AW, do you believe that God is a LIVING GOD? Do you believe that God would then speak to you today? Do you believe God hears? God speaks? AW – God is not dead, God is not a closed chapter. God is a LIVING GOD my dear. Does your God speak to you?? Can you hear your God speaking to you?? Are you guided by the SAME HOLY SPIRIT? What is your relationship with YOUR ALLAH?
Muslims NOT CHRISTIANS have experienced the living god, muslims have been guided by the holy spirit, muslims have been prompted by that same voice which spoke to Saul on the road to Damascus when he was persecuting Christians. This same voice that spoke to Moses, Elijah, Samuel, etc. etc. is today speaking to MUSLIMS, NON-CHRISTIANS, ETC. Well these muslims cannot produce proofs, so they are LIVING PROOFS because the LIVING GOD is the one who guides them, who speaks to them, and thus THEY ARE LIVING PROOFS AND TESTIMONIES. Well, AW – Why should you believe? You will not because you have someone written a book contradicting God, so nothing will satisfy man because Gods ways are not MANs ways, and MANs ways are not GODs ways. JESUS IS OUR PROOF.
Dear I am sorry, it is ridiculous, your very first verse in 2.111 ends with ‘produce a proof if ye are truthful’’. Furthermore, Does your Allah want a non-believer to produce or challenge himself?? Is he not god? This very clearly shows that this is not coming from God, and these are not the words of god, because it belittles and you have belittled GOD and this is what the quran has done.
I find you arguing about the things of THIS WORLD. Man argues with man. But God’s Words can never be in want of arguments, it is man who has created it.
You have lost you case on several occasions and see now you are trying to argue on the gospels. Firstly let me say, these 4 gospels are such a hinderence to man?? Is it?
contd..
You have a problem with 4 gospels and because these are the true words of god and because these are true gospels the devil is distracting you from the truth. Jesus said Truth will set you Free.
WELL I DO NOT WANT TO DO THIS, BUT THEN YOU ARE ASKING FOR IT.
I gather that you have NEVER heard, leave aside even reading the hadiths.
Let me tell you that allah’s language is arabic and therefore has asked you to read/pray in arabic only, and as such if you dont read in arabic then YOU WILL NEVER REALLY KNOW THE EXACT WORDS OF YOUR GOD, and allah will NEVER know the language in which you pray using your mother tounge. you are difinitely not an arab and you will definitely not know even 2% (probably even 0.5%) what is supposed to be the word of allah in the quran unless you develop talking in arabic but then for the meanings you have to refer to your language or english and I understand that there are many many version and translations written in other languages, which is the same when looked at injil.
In sura 16.103-55, tells us, “We know very well that they say: it is only a mortal man who has taught him “. So it is very clear from this statement that even before the quran was printed these were the things that was penned down just to refute some ones unbelief about him.
Sura 8:1 – Say, “The spoils of war belong to GOD and the messenger.” So, AW, Is this not your Allah?? A God?? It is clearly proved that the spread of your religion was encouraged by mohammad to his followers and the loots were then distributed first it was to Allah and to the Messenger and it is confirmed that it was distributed to his men after taking the best for himself and so we see that land, material, wealth and WOMEN were distributed and that is why we see concubines and slaves at the behest and not forgetting the RAIDS THAT MOHAMMAD HIMSELF TOOK PART and finally even Jews were killed.
2:186. When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calls on Me: Let them also, WITH A WILL, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.
Dear ps.
My living God and my experience with him, just as most Muslims, is such that you will never understand as long as you remain arrogant, and consumed by your false belief that Jesus was God. As a matter of fact my relationship with him is such that I regard none as powerful as him and none can “mediate” my confessions between I with He (no priest needed). He hears the whispers of my heart.
The fact that you tell me “God is not dead” and try to inform of the living nature of God, shows that you do not understand even the very basics of Islam; as if I didn’t know that God is living and ever-eternal, most powerful, beyond human imagination, the infinite truth, the first and the last, merciful beyond limits.
2:255. Allah. There is no god but He,-the LIVING, the Self-subsisting, the Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there that can intercede in His presence except as He permits? He knows what (appears to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass nothing of His knowledge except as He wills. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
Continued (a)
2:186. When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calls on Me: Let them also, WITH A WILL, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.
Dear ps.
My living God and my experience with him, just as most Muslims, is such that you will never understand as long as you remain arrogant, and consumed by your false belief that Jesus was God. As a matter of fact my relationship with him is such that I regard none as powerful as him and none can “mediate” my confessions between I with He (no priest needed). He hears the whispers of my heart.
The fact that you tell me “God is not dead” and try to inform of the living nature of God, shows that you do not understand even the very basics of Islam; as if I didn’t know that God is living and ever-eternal, most powerful, beyond human imagination, the infinite truth, the first and the last, merciful beyond limits.
2:255. Allah. There is no god but He,-the LIVING, the Self-subsisting, the Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there that can intercede in His presence except as He permits? He knows what (appears to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass nothing of His knowledge except as He wills. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
Dear
My God is not a jealous God as depicted in the bible, my God does not punish the whole humanity with his wrath for what Adam and Eve did.
My God turned to Adam and Even in kindness and forgave them the instant they ate from the forbidden fruit.
Contind (b)
My God holds every man and woman accountable for what he or she does. “No soul shall bear the burden of another”. My God doesn’t save by “Baptism” of a Pope or worst a priest (who might be a pedophile). A Muslims only Baptism is the Baptism of God.
My God’s message did not come by a reactionary God – Quran has existed since Adam set foot on earth. Today we only have the most complete text. Yet every text at its own time was most perfect for the time of its people and the messenger that brought it.
My God doesnt pick a “chosen people” over others – the only meaning of “chosen children of Isreale” was to set an example for other nations for whatever good and bad they did, the examples of how they were punished for their sins and how they were reward for the goods. The only true chosen people , black or white, Jews, Christians or Muslims are the most righteous of us:
49:13. O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
But most of those who follow the religion of Truth – Islam and the Quran – will be able to see and understand the Truth of the “righteous” that God has envisioned for us to be.
My God is only one God, He does not come in the form of human being, eat, drink, then go relief himself in the bush, brush his hear and trim his nails and get then crucified and as you say “DIE” – my God is eternal.
The only God – my God and your God – the creator of the universe, dear ps. is the unseen God in Truth, He is completely separate from his creation, yet He is well acquainted with everything,
Contind (c)
My God is not pleased by blood:
22:37. It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches God. it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify God for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right.
Still you cannot convince me that the Bible is the word of God. All you say is that well “Jesus said this” or this person said that.
FYI, There are many versions of translations of the Quran, but they cannot deviate from the original truth, no matter how many mistranslations of words or phrases we see, because dear friend, the original text of the Quran is preserved and only ONE text of Quran in Arabic still exists today, it will always act as a correcting agent, bring back all false translations to its original path – to the core its original message.
Also every Muslim (including myself) recites verses of the Quran in Arabic at least 5 times everyday
12:1. A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
12:2. We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur’an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
12:3. We do relate unto thee the most beautiful of stories, in that We reveal to thee
this (portion of the) Qur’an: before this, thou too was among those who knew it not.
Arabic is the only living language that has remained the same for over 1400 years.
The verse “We have sent it down as an Arabic Quran” is a reference to all mankind….
if you open your eyes you will see why. Arabic is a LIVING religious or none religious language for the past 1000 years.
contd..
I really feel sad for you, my Dearest friend, WHY SHOULD YOU ACCEPT AND BELIEVE?? Read Volume 6, Book 61, Number 521:
Narrated Masriq:
‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr mentioned ‘Abdullah bin Masud and said, “I shall
ever love that man, for I heard the Prophet saying, ‘Take (learn)
the Qur’an from FOUR: ‘Abdullah bin Masud, Salim, Mu’adh and Ubai
bin Ka’b.’ ”
So, Mohammad has probably told many things to many people and each one wrote whatever they heard and WHO was the person to decide WHAT WAS THE CORRECT TEXT and whether what is written is what mohammad really meant it that way? who was the person to decide whether mohammad said and compiled finally is what what allah really spoke to mohammad as is written by so many different people.
AW – Your agreement is arguments coming from MANS MIND, just like the quotes you have quoted from quran IT IS COMING FROM A MANS MIND, quran is not COMING FROM ANY GODS MIND.
History confirms and AW DO NOT KNOW and muslims are HIDING THE TRUTH, just as history confirms the death of as human being just like the death of every other human being, and this man’s name is jesus, but muslims are HIDING THE TRUTH.
BURNING OF ORIGINAL TEXTS – THIS EVIDENCE CANNOT BE WIPED OUT FROM HISTORY.
Beside these there are other reports that tell, USMAN the 3rd caliph ”BURNT THE COPIES OF THE QURAN” that varied with the one ”HE PUBLISHED”.
Why and with whose authority would one burn the copies of an alleged divine book if there is nothing seriously wrong with them?
contd…..
Further, Muhammad also classed the Sabians and the people of Zoroaster as the “people of the book.” Now these Sabians were those who were “…the people of the book…[who] worshipped the stars and admitted to the existence of astral spirits….Insofar as the Sabians may have influenced Muhammad, we may note the prevalence of oaths by stars and planets in the Koran (Sura 56:75: ‘I swear by the falling of the stars…’ Sura 53 entitled ‘The Star,’ verse 1: ‘By the start when it plunges…’). and in sura 15:16-17 “We set the signs of the ZODIAC in the heavens…” And (moreover) We have guarded them from every evil spirit accursed.
Dear AW, JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD
and mohammad himself has confirmed that JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD BY HIS OWN LIPS, read the Hadits and if you cannot find it ask for it and I will quote it for you, and yet THE WORD OF GOD IS BELITTLED, because your so called prophet wanted to be elevated next to God and seeing Isa’s standing envied Isa and thus muslims have been told to take the name of mohammad next to his God and notwithstanding the facts that Allah is the moon god which originated during pre-islamic times.
God became man and lived amongst us and he went up to whence he came to proofread to us that our resurrection is guaranteed and he will come to judge the living and the dead for those who REFUSE TO BELIEVE IN THE WORD OF GOD THAT HE HIMSELF REVEALED TO MANKIND.
My salvation my resurrection is assured BY JESUS, Jesus said I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE.
Is your resurrection assured by your so called prophet ?? and your so called allah ? certainly not,
Surah 46:9 & S. Bukh Vol 5, Bk 58, Number 266:
By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me and to you,”
NEITHER YOUR SO CALLED MESSENGER NOR YOU, MY DEAR FRIEND KNOWS WHAT ALLAH HAS IN STORE FOR YOU, THIS IS ALSO CONFIRMED BY MUSLIMS I HAVE DISCUSSED WITH.
hi
I repeat I really love you in Jesus(means God Saves) name.
See what you are asking of me and see what you are doing, can you? Or can you not? IF I AM READING THE WORDS OF GOD AND IN TRUTH THEY ARE GODS WORDS, THEN I DO NOT SEE WHY GOD IN HIS OWN WORDS WANT PEOPLE TO PRODUCE OR CHALLENGE HIM. This is totally absurd. If I write a book about my spiritual experience or have experienced god in my life – I will not ask anyone to challenge my experience or challenge my writings to be true, because what I have written is truth, so this thought of challenge or producing proof of my writing will never dawn on me, bcoz there is truth in my writing and imagine your god allah.
Every verse that you are quoting is absolute arguments and contradicting. Jesus says you have eyes but cannot see, you have ears but cannot hear. AW, WHAT DOES JESUS MEAN? Yet, what does Jesus mean when he said ‘’The spirit of the lord is upon me because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed and to proclaim the year in lords favour.’’’ and to know what jesus said and explained you need the same spirit in you and me to understand the words of jesus, they are the words of god because god is spirit. AW – GOD IS GOD, GOD IS NOT A CONFRONTIST.
Now Is this WORDS OF A GOD? think it over. allah is saying in your book the jews say…. and the Christians say….. so your allah himself is creating discord for and between the jews and Christians. You are quoting your scripture so blindly that you are now asking me to produce proof, that means I MUST PRODUCE EVIDENCE OF GOD. And I know that in the quran itself your allah is even challenging, no AW no, GOD IS GOD and there is not a single human being who can CHALLENGE GOD and produce evidence that God is God, and moreover I being a creature of god will not belittle my god, for my god is GOD OF WISDOM as well.
I will not ask whom to believe, but I say
I BELIEVE IN THE WRITTEN WORDS OF GOD – BCOZ THE WRITERS R WITNESSESS & HAVE CONFIRMED IN WRITING NOT JUST THE FOUR GOSPEL WRITERS, BUT APOSTLES & DISCIPLES TOO.
SO BIBLE IS TRULY THE WITNESSED & WRITTEN SPOKEN WORDS OF GOD, THE HOLY WORD OF GOD INSPIRED & WITNESSED ON EARTH BY MEN & WHOSE NAMES OF WITNESSESS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN BLACK & WHITE and these same men have been KILLED & MARTYRED BCOZ THEY THEMSELVES WITNESSED THE EMMANUEL(GOD WITH US) THEY WITNESSED JESUS(GOD WHO CAME TO US TO SAVE US FROM THE ORIGINAL SIN OF OUR FIRST PARENTS). SIN THAT BROUGHT DEATH TO MANKIND.
I believe:
In the Prophets of the Old Testament who prophesised the Birth of the Emmanual(GOD WITH US), the Messiah who was to come to SAVE MANKIND FROM SIN and who be born in Bethlehem.
In John who said THIS IS THE LAMB OF GOD WOULD TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD.
In the Angel appeared to Mary & said you will bear a child and he will be called the SON OF THE MOST HIGHT, and also who appeared to Joseph, the shephards, the magi.
In the word of god bcoz the very people have witnessed god who said this is my son with whom i am well pleased (2 TIMES).
In the word of god bcoz jesus transfigured and WAS WITNESSED.
In the word of god bcoz jesus ascended into heaven & WAS WITNESSED & the angels confirmed the second coming of jesus.
In the word of god because jesus SUFFERED, DIED & BURIED and MARY TOOK JESUS INTO HER ARMS and was thus WRITTEN AND WITNESSED.
In the TRUE WORD OF GOD, because Jesus rose after his death, EXACTLY AS HE HIMSELF HAD SPOKEN AND TOLD HIS DISCIPLES and witnessed by the multitudes.
In the word of god because jesus was seen after his death by 100′s and the NAMES OF WITNESSED HAVE BEEN WRITTEN,
TODAY HE IS APPEARING AND JESUS IS WITNESSED AND CONFIRMED IN WRITING BY PEOPLE OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE – WELL YOU REFUSE TO BELIEVE THEM AS WELL, IS IT SOMETHING NEW?
AS P.S. SAID MUSLIMS REJECTED EMMANUAL,HIS WITNESSED &WRITTEN WORDS.
contned (d)
God has promised its preservation in the Quran and its preservation we see today:
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message (the Quran); and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
This is not the case with the bible… there are no original text of the bible that exists today but we have hundreds of different translations. Every Christian “scholar” comes and writes his own versions of it. We have new editions of the Bible every now and then.
YOUR argument works against yourself. If someone claims that the Bible is the word of god he or she has to be able to produce the proof that it is the word of God.
Saying we have “faith” that it is the word of God, or “Mathew, Emanual, My priest, Luke or such and such have told us that it is the world of God” just not enough for the people who are wise.
Muslims believe that the Bible was originally inspired by God and passed through Jesus, but corrupted by man, that is why I use some verses of the Bible from time to time, verses that match what the Quran is telling us, Muslims are able to depreciate most of what has or has not been fabricated by man by looking at the Quran.
And for the record just because many people follow it or have followed it does not make it a valid reason for you to say it is from word for word from God. Indeed Jesus said most people will end up in hell and the Quran tell us:
6:116. Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie.
Continued (e)
The Quran on the other hand is full of scientific, mathematical, logical, historical, rational, simple and easy to understand proofs to convince people (who are not arrogant) that it truly is the word of God and God surely shows His signs to us to:
And say: “Praise be to God! He will show you His signs and you will recognize them. Your Lord is never unmindful of anything you do.’ (The Quran 27:93)
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/
But only people with “wisdom” – that is right “wisdom” my friend – who will take heed:
29:49. Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
13:19. Is he who knows that the truth has been sent down to you from your Lord like him who is blind? It is only people of understanding who pay heed.
and for those who are arrogant just as God told Jesus, he tells us in the Qruan again:
7:798. “If thou (O Muhammad) call them to guidance they hear not, thou wilt see them looking at thee (in thine eyes)) but they see not”
Peace and mercy of the ONE God be with you.
(muslim scholars confirm that mohammad never spoke to god). YES, ITS MORTAL MEN WHO TOLD MOHAMMAD AND WAS PENNED BY MOHAMMADS MEN). You loose your case and more over the SPOILS OF WAR nails him down of his sinful nature.
JESUS SAID MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. JESUS BECAME MAN FOR OUR SAKE TO SHOW US THE WAY TO THE KINGDOM YES BROTHER AW JESUS IS MAN AND JESUS IS GOD.
WHY QURAN IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD? BCOZ WHAT QURAN SAYS AND WHAT MOHAMMAD SPOKE AND WHAT MOHAMMAD DID ARE DECEIFUL, AND YOU NEED THE ‘WISDOM’ OF THE TRUE LIVING GOD OF ABRAHAM.
HADITHS Sahih Bukhari
293) Narrated Al-Qasim: ‘Aisha said, “We set out with the sole intention of performing Hajj and when we reached Sarif, (a place six miles from Mecca) I got my menses. Allah’s Apostle came to me while I was weeping. He said ‘What is the matter with you? Have you got your menses?’ I replied, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is a thing which Allah has ordained for the daughters of Adam. So do what all the pilgrims do with the exception of the Taw-af (Circumambulation) round the Ka’ba.” ‘Aisha added, ” ALLAH’S APOSTLE SACRIFIED COWS ON BEHALF OF HIS WIVES”
YOUR PROPHET SACRIFICED COWS DEAR AW – ARE YOU NOT A FOLLOWER OF THIS PROPHET AW???
TODAY YOU AS A MUSLIM MUST KILL ANIMALS AND SACRIFICE TO THE BLACK STONE AND BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP IT. ARE YOU NOT A FOLLOWER OF THIS PROPHET WHO IS BOWING DOWN TO THE HOUSE OF A SLAUGHTER PLACE – THE ASTEROID??
TODAY IN THIS 21ST CENTURY ONLY THE ‘MUSLIM’ SACRIFICE ANIMALS AND HUMANS AND KILL THEIR OWN FLESH AND BLOOD – THEIR OWN MOTHER, FATHER, SISTER, BROTHER ETC. IF THEY BECOME CHRISTIANS. TODAY THERE ARE HONOR KILLINGS IN SAUDI ARABIA, KUWAIT, ALL ARAB COUNTRIES, PAKISTAN, BANGLADESH, INDIA, ETC. AND NOT FORGETTING THESE TRENDS ARE NOW ACTIVATED BY THE MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS IN U.K. ETC.
TERRORISTS MUSLIMS ARE ABOUNDING WHERE HUMAN SACRIFICE IS PRACTISED. ONLY IN ISLAM.
YES YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF THIS SO CALLED PROPHET WHO SACRIFICED ANIMALS AND EVEN PRACTICING TODAY.
YOU LOOSE YOUR CASE, AS IN MANY OTHER CASES.
296) Narrated ‘Aisha: The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur’an while I was in menses. YES, THE PROPHET COULD DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AND YET MUSLIMS ACCEPT HIS SINFUL WAYS AND SINFUL TEACHINGS WHICH HAVE BLINDED HIS FOLLOWERS.
SLEEPING ON A WOMANS LAP WHO HAS MENSES AND RECITING QURAN(SUPPOSED TO BE WORD OF ALLAH) IS ACCEPTABLE, BUT THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND LIVED AMONST US IS ‘DENOUNCED’, THE PROPHESY OF THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS HAS BEEN REJECTED.
WHY BECAUSE MOHAMMAD WANTS THE PLACE OF JESUS, YET THE QURAN IT SELF CONTRADICTS ITS OWN – QURAN CONFIRMS THAT ISSA IS TO BE HONORNED IN THIS WORLD AND THE NEXT. AND IN THE HEREAFTER DEAR AW MUSLIMS WILL HONOR JESUS THE EMMANUAL THE MESSIAH THE SON OF GOD THE LAMB OF GOD THE HOLY AND SINLESS ONE.
LOOK AT THE CONTRADICTIONS EVEN ABOUT THE RECITATION OF THE QURAN:
Volume 6, Book 61, Number 514:
Narrated ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab:
I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah’s Apostle and I listened to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah’s Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper, and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, “Who taught you this Sura which I heard you reciting?” He replied, “Allah’s Apostle taught it to me.” I said, “You have told a lie, for Allah’s Apostle has taught it to me in a different way from yours.” So I dragged him to Allah’s Apostle and said (to Allah’s
Apostle), etc. etc.
(29) ‘Abd Allah b. Sarjis reported: The Prophet (may peace be upon him) prohibited to urinate in a hole. It is said that these (holes) are the habitats of the jinn.
Sunan Abu Dawud Volume 1 Chapter 14 Number 29.
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 494
Narrated Ibn Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said, “When the (upper) edge of the sun appears (in the morning), don’t perform a prayer till the sun appears in full, and when the lower edge of the sun sets, don’t perform a prayer till it sets completely. And you should not seek to pray at sunrise or sunset for the sun rises between two sides of the head of the devil (or Satan).” SUCH IS A SO CALLED PROPHET OF ALLAH.
SUCH IS A MENATALITY OF A PROPHET OF ALLAH.
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 524
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and changed into rats, for if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it.” I told this to Ka’b who asked me, “Did you hear it from the Prophet ?” I said, “Yes.”
A MOST SUPERSTITOUS PROPHET.
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.”
4:35 So be not weak and ask not for peace, while you are having the upper hand. Allah is with you, and will never decrease the reward of your good deeds.
98:6 Verily, those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. THEY ARE THE WORST OF CREATURES.
5:51 O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians friends. Verily, Allah guides not those people.
Quran sura Qaf 50:30
“On that Day We will say to Hell-fire, “Have you been filled?’ It will say, ‘Are there some more?’ ”
The Prophet said, “Paradise and Hell (Fire) quarrelled in the presence of their Lord.